Angry, agressive sailors

spennie · Joined: 13 Oct 1995 Posts: 975 Location: Thousand Oaks, CA

One of the many things I love about windsurfing is the mostly friendly, helpful people. When I started surfing in the early 70's it was like that, guys letting the other guy go first, joking around in the lineup, etc.
Lately I've been encountering more and more angry & agressive sailors, mostly at wave-sailing spots, like Leo Carrillo. Sunday (Sept. 14) I was sailing there, having a great time, good wind, occasional waves, several friends out, sun shining, birds singing, one of those days. I was sailing in towards the lineup when I noticed I was in position to catch one of the larger set waves of the day, amazing! Usually I'm sailing out during sets and in during lulls, which is why I'm not a very good wave sailor (yet!). I'm on the wave way early, and sailing slow so I can stay on it when it starts to peel off the rocks there.
There's a guy slogging around in the lineup, but I'm CLEARLY on the wave first and farther back, so I stay put. When the wave finally catches up to him, he cuts back right under me and SCREAMS "Get the FUCK off my wave!!!", with his face screwed up into an incredible snarl. Since I'm not the kind of guy who gets into fistfights over waves, and this guy is (I'm witholding his name, Leo sailors will know who I'm referring to), I hit the brakes and backed out.
I noticed the same thing happened to surfing after the invention of the leash--the surfing population doubled in 2 years, and all these agro kids who were too lazy to learn to surf if they had to swim after their boards were out, yelling and whistling and shooting their boards at each other.
In skiing, snowboards made it easy to ride on snow, and those same agro kids started flying around at ski resorts, knocking people down and being banned from many resorts for several years.
Now my wife & I have noticed that some of the kitesurfers are like that as well, charging into the lineup with their kites low, or yelling at windsurfers, and just being, well, dicks. Not all of them by a long shot, but enough for us to notice, maybe 20%?
Do you think it's the crowding? Is it just the "angry surfer dude" mentality?
Does waveriding cause an uncontrolled excessive testosterone surge? Is it that the newer windsurf gear has made it so easy to learn that the lower I.Q. crowd has invaded? Ditto for kitesurfing?

jp5 · Joined: 19 May 1998 Posts: 3394 Location: OnUr6

Having been a surfer for over 40 years my opinion of surfers is that they are a bunch of spoiled bitchers and whiners. It is as though every wave they take will be the last one they will ever get. When I started windsurfing 15 years ago I was impressed by the comraderie that was shared by windsurfers and the willingness to help one another.

Today I see more comraderie between surfers in the line up and far less between wave sailing windsurfers, note the distinction because slalom sailers are still very cool people.

There is absolutely no excuse for "GET THE FUCK OFF MY WAVE" under any circumstances!

There is always another wave!

MalibuGuru · Joined: 11 Nov 1993 Posts: 9300

I say we find out who it is, and give him a group hug. It could have been screaming therapy prescribed by his doctor. Sometimes with the group hug you can get a guy like that to cry and let it all out.
Are you sure it wasn't a woman with hairy legs?
Although seriously, there are some guys with loud barks, but I don't think anyone we know down there would physically confront someone on the beach. I hope it was just letting off steam from the stresses of the city. Leo feels like the 405 freeway sometimes.

isobars · Joined: 12 Dec 1999 Posts: 20935

I've noticed this in a few sailors since about the time two idioms reached bumper sticker status: "No Fear" and "Chill, Dude". I'm no social scientist, so I don't know the source or cause, but to me they and their actions collectively say, "I can do anything I want without consequences; you don't matter. STFU".

As someone else said a few weeks ago about these jerks, "They'll get theirs some day" (think Dangler). If each of us gives a few of them their just desserts, they will remain a small minority. (Besides, it's often fun, and justified with repeat or particularly aggressive offenders.) As Karl Marx and Hillary Clinton put it, each in his/her own words: "It takes a village to raise a child". Words helps short term in some cases; I've seen action be very effective in many cases.

Mike

pollywog · Joined: 17 Feb 2003 Posts: 2

Ditto, I started surfing in 1968, there was localism, not violent, competeive. Started sailing in 83, new sport, friendly people. What's changed is the instant gratification mind set and me first intitlement attitude people have. Last time I checked 99% of all who enjoy these sports don't get paid it. The ones with the tude usually fall into the category of: I wish I could buy them for what they are worth and sell them for what they think they are worth. Enjoy what you do without attacking others. You will find for most of us there will be another waves and windy days to be had.

jp5 · Joined: 19 May 1998 Posts: 3394 Location: OnUr6

swchandler · Joined: 08 Nov 1993 Posts: 10588

I hate to say it Spennie, but the wave lineup has always had its share of difficult folks, and the whole thing gets that much more touchy in a small tight venue like Leo.

I think that most of the surfers that frequent Leo are working in an even more compressed zone, so it incumbent on them to find a tenable balance or things would readily fall apart and conflict would quickly result. This is kind of a basic requirement for single peak take-off venues, whereas larger venues tend to allow folks to spread out more. However, in the larger venues, it can elevate the competitive factors because the added freedom allows folks break protocol a bit more. So the strong, and more savvy participants usually get more waves. Still though, even at a large venue like Malibu or Rincon, folks will pick their favorite take-off spot so some balance and respect must exist, so reasonable sharing must come into the mix to make things work.

Of course, all you need is that 5-20% minority that will fight reasonable protocol and sharing and effectively ruin everything. There will always be a few wave hogs that are only interested in themselves, and they invest deeply in strategies to intimidate and buffalo others. An aggressive behavior, to include strong posturing and rudeness, are always in their bag of tricks. A lot of folks like yourself want to avoid such charged and potentially volatile folks who employ the bully mentality. In my experience, the only way to successfully deal with the bully is to not back off and to deny them them their leverage over others. Certainly this tack is a testy road, but it's the only way I've found to break the cycle.

You know, Spennie, you might want to think about a mellower venue like C Street. Of course, it's often not the same side-off wave setup as Leo, but the anxiety level is very low because there are usually lots of waves for everybody (windsurfers, kiters and surfers). Also, the kelp and eel grass are practically non-existent. Since it appears that you live in TO, the drive looks about the same.

spennie · Joined: 13 Oct 1995 Posts: 975 Location: Thousand Oaks, CA

SWChandler: Thanks for that insightful reply, very good, don't have to worry about YOUR I.Q.! ;-) I do sail C-Street occasionally, and have surfed there several times as well, and I agree, there's a much mellower vibe all around. Maybe because it's that much further from L.A.?
Unfortunately, it doesn't blow over 13-15 there very often, so it's more of a kiteboarding site, as I'm reluctant to take my big slalom gear out through the rocks.
Just now remembered a session I had there a year or so ago, sailing among the kiters, all of us having fun together, smiling & waving & trying to give each other plenty of room. We can all sail together and have fun, we just need to NOT BE DICKS.

windoggi · Joined: 22 Feb 2002 Posts: 2743

The leash changed surfing...the lineup used to self cleaning. Shows how old I am!

Iso...it takes a village??? First citing a liberal think tank, now Hillary? Nice to have you aboard, comrade.

tstar · Joined: 10 Apr 2000 Posts: 46

Nothing has changed at Secos in 20 years. There has ALWAYS been some asshole hanging out at the rock looking to snake every wave. The beach is beautiful but it comes with people with LA zip codes. Catching waves there reguires one to be a hockey mom, pit bull with lipstick on a pig and pretend you're super macho. A 9mm tucked in your harness may buy you some room.