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Euro pin vs. US base cup
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slayer666



Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 41

PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 7:46 pm    Post subject: Euro pin vs. US base cup Reply with quote

Hello Everyone,

I did not see many threads regarding that particular topic.
I am switching to an RDM mast and need to renew my extensions...
This is pretty much for wavesailing conditions only.
Any pros and cons going with the EP ?

PS : buying Streamlined this time... I hate how the Chinook plastic tends to wear out resulting in way too much play to my liking Sad

Cheers.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 8388

PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi slayer666,

I made the switch more recently to RDM masts and elected to go the EuroPin route because I have always found that the 2 pin plastic universals only last so long before they start getting wobbly through wear, and I regularly tend to break/shear off the pins on the retention clip component. Also, I felt that the bulletproof nature of the Chinook Stainless Steel universal offered the best design to limit wear and potential for failure. Matched with Chinook's 2 bolt base plate for a solid attachment to the board, one arguably gets the best formula for high wind and surf conditions. However, for flexibility, because I have quite a few boards, I also bought Chinook's single bolt screw-on SS universal too.

Where things start getting a bit more up in the air is with the mast extension. Right off the bat, avoid Fiberspar's product, as its junk. When downhauling, the carbon tube goes way out of perpendicularity with the plastic base/pulley assembly screwing up the shape of the sail's foot. I've heard that breakage rates are quite high because of this.

Chinook's carbon mast extension is much better, but when downhauling large sails there is a slight tendency to lose some perpendicularity between the tube and the plastic base/pulley assembly. The result does not affect the sail's shape any, yet the interplay between the tube and base tends to worry me a bit with regard to potential long term dependability. Time will tell if the situation leads to failure. Lastly, with regard to Chinook's product, I've heard that sand can get in the push button release mechanism and jam things up. While this has never happened to me, its a good idea to keep things as sand free as possible.

I have also bought Streamline's Redline EuroPin mast extension with the Quick 6 pulley system. While I have yet to use it, I think that its the most bulletproof design out right now. However, there are a couple things to check out when buying it. First, be sure that the release button on the side of the tube has the plastic component that wedges along the release button's shaft to prevent accidental depression and release while sailing. Secondly, if you elect to buy Chinook's SS EuroPin universal, be sure that Streamline's mast extension accepts and retains the pin. Unfortunately, some early versions of Chinook's SS universal would go into the mast extension, but the pin wouldn't be properly captured to retain the pin. If you elect to go Streamline all the way, there's no problem with retention and release.
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madspaniard



Joined: 23 May 2005
Posts: 380

PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

swchandler wrote:
Hi slayer666,

I made the switch more recently to RDM masts and elected to go the EuroPin route because I have always found that the 2 pin plastic universals only last so long before they start getting wobbly through wear, and I regularly tend to break/shear off the pins on the retention clip component. Also, I felt that the bulletproof nature of the Chinook Stainless Steel universal offered the best design to limit wear and potential for failure. Matched with Chinook's 2 bolt base plate for a solid attachment to the board, one arguably gets the best formula for high wind and surf conditions.


I also switched and have the same set up for over a year. Chinook one piece stainless steel EuroPin coupled with Chinook's 2 bolt base plate and Chinook RDM all carbon extension.

I like the euro pin better, seems to be easier and quick to attach/detach and looks pretty solid.
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victor



Joined: 03 Aug 1998
Posts: 581

PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i'm using the redline by streamlined. it is definitely the most bulletproof extension available. the construction is simple and sturdy. if the astronauts had to windsurf in outerspace they'd probabaly use them.

some minuses:

it is more difficult to rig, unless you're using a crank. this is only because there isn't a lot of surface to put your foot against.

you have to make sure the downhall is well seated in the cleat because it can come out preetty easily while your sailing.

it seems to have more salt/sand/dirt deposits on it after it dries. i assume this is because it is almost all metal constrution which is a plus. a quick rinse with fresh water after each use will remedy this.

it weighs quite a bit more than a carbon extension.

yesterday i discovered most of the hook on the pin retainer boke off, somehow. enough is left to keep the pin from being depressed accidentally. am contacting steamlined for a replacement.

once you're rigged properly and on the water it works great.

mine came with the tendon universal that atttaches directly to the mast track. this eliminates one piece of equipment and another connection that might fail. it also lets you get he foot of the sail a little closer to the deck which is probably a good thing. no hles to get ovalized by the retainer clip.

it only attaches to the mast track with one bolt, though. i haven't taken it apart but the connection between the tendon and the mast track bolt feels a little wobbly. i've only used it about a dozen times so far so can't report on the durability.
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cbknap



Joined: 03 Jun 1997
Posts: 335

PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know how it is with the Streamlined Redline RDM extension but on the full-size version a sail's tack strap can ride up the extension, open the little lock-out hook, and press the release button. You will then find yourself swimming furiously to retrieve your board. In high winds, this could be impossible. After I had an inadvertent release about 3/4 mile offshore I took off the lock-out hook, ground off the thumbhold and flipped the hook over so the tack strap tends to close it instead of open it. I also put a washer on the lock out hook screw so that the tack strap can not ride up.

I like and use the product--it's very strong-- but inadvertent release of the pin could be deadly -- so make sure it can't happen.
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jkayes



Joined: 03 Jul 2000
Posts: 68

PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with the foregoing (that the europin is better) and use it exclusively now. My understanding is that the europin is more durable than the two little nubbins that stick out -- I've seen the area where those join to a carbon extension wear out the extension and expand the hole.

Personally, I have both a chinook base and a streamined base but use a chinook extension. And the release button is hidden by my mast sleeve.

That being said, there are 2 drawbacks to the europin:

1. I used to tuck the "tail" of my downhall up into the mast, which is something you can't do with a europin.

2. If for some reason you need to detach the mast from the board on the beach (for example, to add downhaul), I find that if any sand gets into the mechanism it's very difficult to re-attach them. With the other setup, it wasn't as senstive to small amounts of sand.
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victor



Joined: 03 Aug 1998
Posts: 581

PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i forgot about the downhaul line stoage. can't stick it up the mast. i have an o ring on the extension to hold the coiled up line. superfreak sails have a mesh pocket for it. wish all sails did.

btw, i emailed streamlined about my broken retainer hook. within 1/2 hour they replied saying it's in the mail, no charge. that's good customer service.
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slayer666



Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 41

PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks everyone for your time and all the excellent information provided !
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aaron1234



Joined: 22 Jun 1998
Posts: 58
Location: Marin

PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Second that thanks for the great reviews. How about the weight. Is the euro pin signifigantly heavier than the standard setup?
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joespeed



Joined: 13 Jun 2000
Posts: 50

PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why would anyone not use the north power XT extension is a mystery to me, you can adjust the downhaul while on the water which is priceless,no tools needed, it has a winch (you do have to stop and jump in).
I've used the SDM power XT since the year it came out(3-4 years ago), last year I switched to RDM mast because North finally came out with an skinny version of their extension (and I was tired of breaking my masts).
It uses the Euro pin only as the mechanism does not have the room for the american cup.
The extra few ounces of the mechanism is well worth it as you can always have a perfectly tuned sail for the immediate conditions.

take care
Louis
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