myiW Current Conditions and Forecasts Community Forums Windsurfing Videos Buy and Sell Services
 
Hi guest · myAccount · Log in
 SearchSearch   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   RegisterRegister 
Property in La Ventana

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    iWindsurf Community Forum Index -> Southwest USA, Hawaii, Mexico
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
faradroka1



Joined: 14 May 2001
Posts: 216
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 6:44 pm    Post subject: Property in La Ventana Reply with quote

In Jan 2007, i was down in LV and the land buying frenzy was on. A local tried to sell me some cinder block "home" for $65K, bare lots were going for $40K to $80K and some Doctor and his friends bought a bunch of parcels near town like they were baseball trading cards.

Now a few months and a few billion dollars in sub prime mortgages have passed, and I wondered if anyone got involved and what their experiences have been? I talked with several Fideocomiso owners who bought in the 80's and they had pretty good experiences, but seemed to be from a different era. The era where common sense prevailed, perhaps. They knew they were getting something that could "disappear" but the prices were extremely low back then.

Or maybe I'm the idiot because I refuse to mortgage the increased value in my SF Bay Area house for some dirt in Mexico. I looked at a site that lists online, and the prices seem to be holding up, but what do I know?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
windsrf



Joined: 01 May 1998
Posts: 182

PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave,

A buddy I met at Vela Los Barilles in mid 90's bought property and built in Cabo Pulmo. I've visited many times - it is great place to eat, snorkel, kayak, windsurf, kitesurf, play tennis, hike, mtn bike, etc.

However, he has sold his place now - for several reasons, but main ones appear to be not able to spend enough time there to justify, too much maintenance (particularly when hit by Class 5 hurricane), and feeling tied to always going there. Part of it is school age son, requiring attention to school schedule, etc.

Hope this helps - plus missed you today at Pt. Isabel - reasonably good wind!

David
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BajaVaya



Joined: 03 Apr 2003
Posts: 88

PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not sure these guys know whereof they speak (post?).

I have a house 24km so. of San Quintin+Cardenas (yes, it is 2 towns) ie, 200 mi so. of the border. If you drive to P.San Carlos (or anywhere else in mid or so. Baja), our El Socorro community is clearly visible from the main drag (only drag! Baja Route 1 -- asphalt all the way). We have owned the house for 23 yrs and have no intention of giving it up. There are many similar communities up and down the coast; most are inhabited by gringos, just as contented as I. Our kids grew up hauling a Radio Flyer unattended to our beach.

From the pics, you can see that it is not exactly a shack. The house is slump block & concrete (not rickety 2x4 gringoland construction) has a 40' x 15' garage (which houses a truck and Baja bug + 10 windsurf boards + sails on racks). It has a 50 mi unobstructed surf view to El Rosario. The land is about 1 acre. The community has a private runway, federal power (regular 240V/120V), private well (running water), and miles upon miles of pristine beach.

El Soc is about a 4.5 hr drive from La Frontera (I drive leisurely, so it is 5.5 hr from me). Also, I stop in Ensenada to stock up at the Gigante supermarket which is as clean and hygienic as any in gringoland and the servers wear gloves and hair caps -- but the prices are less than half at your neighborhood Vons, etc (haven't gotten sick in 20+ yrs). If you are still unconvinced, there is a Costco -- just like one near you.

For this I pay $80/mo. property rent + $180/yr homeowner assessment for water. However, I did have to buy the house itself ($80K - $200K depending on how fancy). This is pretty typical for gringo communities roundabout.

El Soc. is well situated. It is an easy 70 mi drive to P.San Carlos (3 of us travel down somewhat regularly). However, there is excellent consistent wind all over the area (not as good as PSC, but better than So. Cal., nearby La Pinta has become a kite mecca, but there are miles of beach + bay to share). Also, we have some "secret spots" that have superb wavesailing. Several of the breaks have been written up in surfing mags, one was raved as Surfing mag's "best surf spot" (unnamed) on the west coast.

Unlike Ventana, Bahia Concepcion, Barriles, Cabo, and other pts south, you can pop down for a weekend (many do), and has real ocean waves (often bigger than most can handle). Furthermore, you can pull a trailer full of furniture, appliances, building stuff, etc that you can pick up cheaply in the states (my house is "furnished by garage sale" with top-notch Denon+Yamaha+Marantz stereo, Sony DVD+VCR+TV, microwave, breadmaker, etc -- that I picked up for pennies on the $). Apres windsurf, my friends and I don't eat beans out of a can and sit shivering around a dinky fire. We take hot showers and sleep in regular beds... and not in a flapping tent.

You don't need to buy a house -- many gringos simply haul down a large old trailer. Security? Over the years we had one or two break-ins, but the Mexican landowner family knows everybody for miles, and the cops (invited to every pachanga) haven't heard of Miranda rights and are pals of us turista residentes.

To fideo comisa, or rent? There are pros and cons either way.

From the posts I have read, this may all be academic -- given the MEXXXICO paranoia. Which suits us just fine.

For the one, or two, who aren't shivering at the same old 3 stories repeated over and over by different media (and each could easily have been avoided by common sense exercised by us regulars who, together, have made 1000s of uneventful trips), there are some great opportunities.



Front View.JPG
 Description:
House is block + concrete.
 Filesize:  61.16 KB
 Viewed:  2408 Time(s)

Front View.JPG



Garage Side.JPG
 Description:
Storage garage + emergency water pila (tank -- not used anymore).
 Filesize:  59.08 KB
 Viewed:  2408 Time(s)

Garage Side.JPG



El Soc - whole rancho from air.jpg
 Description:
Runway in center. Baja 1 to rt.
 Filesize:  121.26 KB
 Viewed:  2408 Time(s)

El Soc - whole rancho from air.jpg


Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jwajack



Joined: 26 Apr 1994
Posts: 157
Location: San Pedro, CA

PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sparky1 wrote:
A lot of good reasons to invest outside our own shores, cheap land, windsurfing, I love la ventana, but my $0.02 is as follows....

If you have enough money that taking a couple G's, and tossing it in the firepit is funny - then you should buy some land in Mexico, and invite your friends to come play!

I am a big fan of Baja, it's part of my retirement planning, but I recognize the very real possibility that the government there, or local athoritities, or any Mexican who can lay claim to your parcel, may some day be given that land, regardless of the paper you hold. Land ownership has it's ups and downs in the US, where we have a lot of laws protecting you. Like I said, my 0.02... Confused


While the legal system is quite different in MX and many other places than in the States, that doesn't mean that the government or some person can easily snap up your land without consequence, or that the government even want to allow such a possibility from the point of view of encouraging economic investment. True, a "Hugo Chavez" could come to power in many places and start a program of nationalization and that certainly has occurred, but if that's your fear then you're not going to invest anywhere outside of the US with few exceptions. (And if you think that the government's abuse of the law only occurs outside our borders . . . well, that's a different thread that has been well used.)

The well publicized stories that circulated relatively recently in CA about homeowners losing their property in Ensenada/Baja Norte did not -- to my understanding -- tell the whole story, and understandably so. Had they told the whole story, the sympathy factor would have dropped away as, if my understanding is correct, the property was purchased by the US residents with the knowledge that there were conflicting claims to the land and the price of the land reflected it. Undoubtedly the sellers assured the purchasers that they would win the dispute, but 20 years later they did not.

By contrast, my understanding in La Ventana, where I did own property for several years (but sold it because with a young family we really couldn't use it and could make better use of the investment), people have been able to get clear recorded title to the land and have obtained the land utilizing a bank trust (feda comiso (sp?)) or setting up a MX corporation and buying the land outright.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BajaVaya



Joined: 03 Apr 2003
Posts: 88

PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jwajack wrote:
While the legal system is quite different in MX and many other places than in the States, that doesn't mean that the government or some person can easily snap up your land without consequence, or that the government even want to allow such a possibility from the point of view of encouraging economic investment...

The well publicized stories that circulated relatively recently in CA about homeowners losing their property in Ensenada/Baja Norte did not -- to my understanding -- tell the whole story, and understandably so.

By contrast, my understanding in La Ventana, where I did own property for several years (but sold it because with a young family we really couldn't use it and could make better use of the investment...


Amen.

The nub of the story around Punta Banda (about 10 mi n. of Ensenada) is that a scum-bag Mexican fast talker sold the gringos lots to which he claimed title, but did not. The judge ruled in favor of the original landowner. Hey, it happens in gringoland. That is why no lender will underwrite a mortgage without title insurance. Same common sense goes for MEXXXICO.

It is called a Fideo Comiso. I won't go into the details.

Another option is to lease the land for 10 yrs (max. under the Codigo Civil) and keep renewing. Can the landlord evict you? Yes, but he/she needs a court order -- under the Mex. Constitution. (Comes from the campesinos being kicked off their land by wealthy landlords. When the campesinos won their revolution in 1919, tough eviction was one of their 1st orders of business.) Many Mexicans scam the system, knowing that it takes about 2 yrs to get the judge to sign, so they squat for 1.5 yrs then make a payment and the clock goes back to 0.

A community can protect itself by forming an Asociacion Civil (which we have done at El Soc). This is a govt recognized nonprofit corp. with all the power of a Mexican citizen (it can buy land anywhere, dig/own wells, and has substantial clout in a Mexican court). A.Cs are the norm for most of the gringo condo developments on the TJ - Ensenada corridor.

Jwajack, sorry you had to sell in La Ventana -- you might consider a place near San Quintin. Best investment we ever made, kids grew up taking frequent weekends/vacations there -- loved the open beach, shells, tide pools. Wife relaxed. I windsurfed without any guilt trip. All for far less than trips/rentals/motels (for a whole family) to you name it... and eventually we can sell our place for substantially more than we paid for it (under the Mex Codigo Civil, we own the house and we have an A.C. to enforce that).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BajaVaya



Joined: 03 Apr 2003
Posts: 88

PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oops. Punta Banda is 10 mi so. of Ensenada (just so. of La Bufadora).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    iWindsurf Community Forum Index -> Southwest USA, Hawaii, Mexico All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You can attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum

myiW | Weather | Community | Membership | Support | Log in
like us on facebook
© Copyright 1999-2007 WeatherFlow, Inc Contact Us Ad Marketplace

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group