myiW Current Conditions and Forecasts Community Forums Windsurfing Videos Buy and Sell Services
 
Hi guest · myAccount · Log in
 SearchSearch   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   RegisterRegister 
Suggestion: Lead by example, and access should continue.
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    iWindsurf Community Forum Index -> Southwest USA, Hawaii, Mexico
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
theq



Joined: 10 Apr 2000
Posts: 636

PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 1:15 pm    Post subject: Suggestion: Lead by example, and access should continue. Reply with quote

After experiencing Saturday's crowd at Leo, I decided to leave it to everyone else to work at having fun windsurfing on Sunday and Monday. I'm hopeful that our heat wave, that facilitated the hatch of swarming kiters this weekend, will abate, and they'll drop from the sky without mating. Laughing
Seriously, I've never gotten so close to other sailors or kiters, so many times, as I did on Saturday. People taking off down the line, up the line, pivoting, gyrating, steep pointing, and bouncing around like a badly kicked football, made it very difficult and dangerous sailing out there. I actually gave ground on waves that were "mine", in order to remain safe to sail another day. I wasn't happy about it, believe me.
I'd bet that the lifeguards have made the decision that they'll shut down the water to kiters, and perhaps even windsurfers, once there's a major injury out there. That's why they mostly stand and watch. If we make it through this weekend, it'll be a miracle indeed.
Windsurfers: I recommend being very strict about staying BELOW the buoys. We are surely being watched. If the lifeguards are keeping a tally on violations, let the kiters stand out as by far the biggest offenders. If we don't abide by those lines, and someone gets hurt, we'll be finding another sport, as there are no other spots. The kiters are showing that they are their own worst enemy. Let them continue to eat their young, and stand out to the lifeguards. Stay below the buoys. So what, you miss a wave. It's better than missing all waves from some point on. This is becoming real possibility, thanks mostly to the kiters, as they have proven to be more dangerous to the public at large. I'd suggest leading by example. If you decide to brave it today, have fun.


Last edited by theq on Mon Sep 03, 2007 2:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
beallmd



Joined: 10 May 1998
Posts: 1031

PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great post-every windsurfer (sail surfer) and kiter should be made to read this before they get on the water again. It applies absolutely everywhere!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jpbassking



Joined: 19 May 1998
Posts: 2299
Location: Leo

PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now that summer is over the kiters will have access to other beaches and the crowds should thin. Hopefully...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Billyptres



Joined: 12 Jun 1995
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Windsurfers, I would suggest you peruse the ikitesurf site and see the call to all kiters to come to Leo. (Slingshot demo days were yesterday!) Why? Because it's wide open, only a few windsurfers that they figure can easily be intimidated, no lifeguards telling them to stay out of the congested area. The word has spread that Leo is the best place for wind, waves, and unencumbered kiting. Get used to it, or start doing something about it. Complain to the guards, write letters, sail en masse at Leo. You can hope that after Labor Day the problem will go away, or do something about it. Next summer should be more of the same.

I was about to put the following on the ikitesurf site in response to a kiters stereotypical rant "It's a free ocean!", and after a crowded nasty session yesterday.....but I agree, let them fall on their own sword.

A kiter posted these pearls of wisdom...
"Some of these guys (windsurfers) need to stop looking at the few bad things that happen."

All it takes is one or two bad things to happen (someone hurt) in a very small area like Leo for everyone to lose privileges. We need to be separated like Maui, period. It does not take a genius to realize this... kiters require hundreds of square feet--they should sail in one area, and windsurfers in another. There are such wimpy waves at Leo 97% of the time, and so the only reason kiters come up from Belmont Shore, etc. and sail close to shore is to show off .

I got flipped off twice by the same intermediate or less-skilled kiter yesterday. These guys come up from points south, and think windsurfers are going to give them 100' of right of way. First time in 18 years of sailing at Leo that someone gave me the finger. Plus idiot kiters on the waves taking up 200' doing tricks, threatening little kids in the shallow water. How about surfers who have been at Leo for decades?

We get it, kiters from somewhere else---you are awesome---but you don't get the whole spot -sail at zeroes on crowded days or go home.

If you have been kiting for 2-3 years, guess what---you really aren't that skilled, and it's pretty easy to tell. The slot cannot take 10 -15 kiters and 20 windsurfers. If this was Maui where they actually have money for the life guards the segregation that we all need would have happened long ago. We need to go to the lifeguards and have them sort it out because this situation is getting worse by the day. The guards I have spoken with do not like kiters at Leo for safety reasons. Windsurfers don't threaten the general public on the beach.

Some local kiters like to threaten windsurfers to keep quiet---"or else the lifeguards will close it down to kiters and windsurfers, both". I don't buy that. It's just kiters hoping we won't make noise.

More of the kiter's rant...
"the ocean is a free place"

A wind powered craft, like a kite and windsurfer, must operate under restrictions like remaining 100' from swimmers and surfers. Every time a kiter comes in up the line he is breaking the law technically because his craft is 50 ' long... Leo is not a free place for your ego to run wild!

They need their own spot and they can't over run Leo.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jpbassking



Joined: 19 May 1998
Posts: 2299
Location: Leo

PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a damn good letter Billy. We tried the "Police your own" bit on the kitesurf forum and it looks like it did not do any good. All that has to happen is for some out of control airborne kiter to come crashing down on top of a hapless windsurfer to cause major injury or death and then maybe the guards will enforce a no-kiting zone.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dabull1



Joined: 19 Mar 1997
Posts: 511

PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 3:23 pm    Post subject: A modest proposal Reply with quote

The mighty Theq has spoken!!!! Can I hear a thunderous Amen!!!! I posted on George's'thread this AM thanking our visiting kiters and some of our resident K Klan for pissing off literally everyone at Leo over the past couple of days. Unfortunately, we're dealing with a similar mentality that us diehard skiers also get to deal with come winter. It's evidenced by some of the QUALITY posts you can read on the K Forum. The intellectual discourse on this forum indiicates that most of the posters may posses an IQ at least in the double digit range; I can't say that for the majority of the posters to the K site. So, when one of these Einsteins presents you with his IQ, as symbolized by the singular extension of the middle digit of the right hand, be understanding and tolerant, it's his or her primary means of communication. Simply react according to the K'rs gender... to the male a freindly smile and a wave, all digits please, should suffice. To the female, an understanding smile and an "OH PLEASE!!!" should take the edge off the unpleasant encounter. It works well with snowboarders and I've found that it works well for me with K'rs. And by the way, George we love you but you're a knucklehead!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Bull
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
theq



Joined: 10 Apr 2000
Posts: 636

PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great letter Billy. Where we may have our biggest problem is that we don't have enough young windsurfers coming up through the ranks. We've got some attrition happening while the kiters seem to be breeding like flies. Kiting just fits more into the M.O. of today's in-your-face crowd, so they're attracted to it over windsurfing. The attitude of these displaced lake-people/jetskiers, is "F--- everybody", I can do what I want, the "free ocean" rant.
Those who have grown up surfing and windsurfing are a different breed. I don't have them in mind during this rant. I can appreciate their love of their new sport. They are not the problem, as they try not to be.
The other problem is, as you alluded to, that we have no effective policing being done. Perhaps we won't until someone does get seriously hurt out there.
In some ways, the skier vs. snowboarder situation is a great comparison. The skiers spend years developing safe protocols so that people could enjoy their sport with a minimum of risk from recreation anarchists. Along came the snowboarders, with a new technology, and perhaps going places where skiers could not, and I'd hazard to say, with less eye on safety. Snowboarders are certainly here to stay.
However, the big difference between the snowboarder v. skier and the windsurfer v. kiter, is the long lines between the kite and what's providing their power. Do you think that snowboarding would be allowed on traditional ski slopes if they were attached to a kite? No way. In fact, I'd bet there are guys who tried it and were quickly given the bum's rush to the exit gate. If kiters were just guys on wake boards who derived their speed and power from some magical, invisible, no strings attached force, I'd have little problem with them as long as they abide by the rules of the road. But, because of the amount of effective space they take up, and the way they bounce around like a frickin' squibb kicked football, makes them impossible to safely share the water with for long. When I'm getting close to a kiter, regardless of his tack, I feel like a football player trying to judge the bounce. While it may be possible to have few courteous, experienced kiters at Leo when the windsurfers are out, the numbers out this weekend were way beyond being safe. It really was a circus out there.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 13315

PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not trying to demean this excellent discussion or its topic at all, but I'd appreciate a perspective: How do the crowds on the water at Leo compare to those at the Hatchery on any windy summer weekend?

\m/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Billyptres



Joined: 12 Jun 1995
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 5:33 pm    Post subject: hatchery Reply with quote

when its going of fit's experts only but the gorge has 10 great sailing spots with in 20 mins. of each other,hard to compare
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
D-wo



Joined: 13 May 2004
Posts: 225

PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not to derail the thread here...but I windsurfed at Waddell a couple weeks ago and it seemed that the kiters and windsurfers co-existed quite well. Of course Waddell is larger than Leo and the wave set up is different. (The skill level of the kiters tends to be quite high as well, and not many beachgoers brave the cold waters ). So, perhaps the answer is not to demonize kiters, but to look at which sites where kiting makes sense i.e there is enough room for safe kiting. It seems there must be some sensible folks in the kiting community who would be open a reasonable discussion on the topic. Perhaps a compromise could be reached without the need of lifeguards. I do agree though, if callous kiters endanger sailors and beachgoers and don't respond to sensible criticism then it might be pertinent to bring this to the attention of the authorities.
_________________
mountainbikeoc.blogspot.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    iWindsurf Community Forum Index -> Southwest USA, Hawaii, Mexico All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
Page 1 of 7

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You can attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum

myiW | Weather | Community | Membership | Support | Log in
like us on facebook
© Copyright 1999-2007 WeatherFlow, Inc Contact Us Ad Marketplace

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group