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WMP



Joined: 30 May 2000
Posts: 600

PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wsmike wrote:
I think its common knowledge that if you hit your head on something hard then you can get knocked unconscious. Unconsciousness in a deep body of water can be detrimental to your health, that is to say drowning, and therefore lack of life ie. death.


Yep, I was knocked unconscious by a careless and reckless sailor who just happened to be wearing a helmet at Cheap Beach...right out there in the middle of the river (FYI, that's deep water). He let go of his rig when he went out of control and the tip of his mast hit me in the neck below the ear.... BAM!! knocked me out instantly. No helmet would have prevented this injury.





wsmike wrote:
I don't think you're fishing for someone to prove you wrong, so that you can finally be justified in joining the helmet-wearing crowd. Its fine by me if you don't think helmets provide protection from blunt object impacts, its fine by me if you don't wear a helmet, its fine if you want to windsurf under barges without a helmet, life preserver, or body armor...just to prove that you can do it, I don't have a problem with that.



I joined the helmet crowd back in '02... fact, I still wear one in winter to keep my head warm in east winds. I don't wear a helmet in west winds. Problem I've had with helmets is in big swell when I get thrown off the lip at a certain point in a speed jibe when I get turned around and get sent flying in front of the board back first (face up).... and the board runs over my face with the helmet on, fin goes into my eye... not a healthy thing. Without the helmet it's not been a problem.

wsmike wrote:
BUT don't call me a bungling idiot for considering my own safety by wearing a helmet, because when you do that, you sound like an idiot yourself.


I've not done that so why do you bring this up? Fact, I've been encouraging folks here to wear a helmet if it makes them feel better..... just don't have any false sense that you can't get injured with a helmet on, that's all.
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Sylvie



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Posts: 12
Location: Montréal

PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey you, dear arguing guys, I really would like to know (I'm usually not so curious) what is the issue you are expecting from this debate!!!

Wink Wink Wink
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TBird



Joined: 05 Jul 2001
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 10:02 pm    Post subject: Stop It! Reply with quote

Good God, People! I can't believe the name calling going on here. Wear a helmet if you choose. Don't wear one if you don't want to. But please, don't insult and denegrate others for whatever choice they've made. And above all else, don't speculate on the accident at Mosier. It was a tragedy, period. Let's take the high road and show a little decency and respect for Janet, her family and friends.
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WMP



Joined: 30 May 2000
Posts: 600

PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey TBird... nobody here is being disrespectful to Janet. We are just having a productive discussion about safety issues. Nobody really knows what happened in that situation.... but if there's something to learn by it, let's all learn by it. I simply brought out the fact that river levels have become extremely low in the last few weeks and this has caused many serious accidents. I don't know if the low water level contributed to Janet's accident... but it would make sense. Nothing disrespectful with this... it could happen to anybody. Probably best to check the depth of any sandbar / shallow area before sailing over it from now until we get deeper water. I say this with all due respect to jar-heads and non-jar-heads alike !! Laughing

NOTE: The reason I call the dude who knocked me out at Cheap Beach an "idiot" when he let go of his rig and caused me a near death experience.... he didn't bother sticking around after the accident. Fact is, he never even said "sorry". It's always good policy to stick around after you nearly kill someone.... at least that's the way I see it.
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tweeky



Joined: 19 Sep 2004
Posts: 256

PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
Sorry to burst your bubble, but a mast wouldn't make a lightning bolt deviate more than about 10 feet from its natural path, and certainly wouldn't trigger a bolt, according to my personal conversation with the nation's leading lightning researcher on expressly the topic of sailing thunderstorm winds --

But now that you mention it, the REAL, certifiable idiots are the guys who get struck under sail by lightning, are rescued, re-rig (because their gear was destroyed), and get right back on the water minutes later. Those ... and the guys who stand outside the motor home in the huge, flat, dirt parking area, leaning against it to watch the idiots on the lake while lightning strikes within a mile every 5 to 10 seconds. Can you spell "grounding rod"? Maybe they were trying to protect their tires in the event of a direct hit.

\m/


Man, Isobars, you are just a freak. Look at what I quoted above, you start out by saying that a mast would not trigger a lightning bolt, and then wrap up by talking about guys sailing being struck by lightning. You directly contradict yourself. You change hail to sleet, you say you know some weather guru, whatever it takes to make it sound like you're right and everyone else is wrong. Lately, I find you just seem to throw something out there in almost every thread that makes you seem like "Mr. Know It All". Face it, we're talking about the choice of wether or not to wear a helmet, and you were bragging about sailing in thunder storms and got busted for it. You just can't handle that, can you?
Bye Wink
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 13294

PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where's the contradiction?
Sleet, hail . . . when it's hitting yer face, who cares how the ice pellets formed?
Busted?

You no longer deserve a \m/.
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tweeky



Joined: 19 Sep 2004
Posts: 256

PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
who cares how the ice pellets formed?


Are you seriously advocating sailing in a thunderstorm? Ok people, I don't care who Isobars says he knows, is connected with or whatever. DO NOT sail in a thunderstorm, or in conditions where you think lightning may occur. The claim he's making that a mast won't attract lightning is totally bogus, it sure will if the storm is over a lake and your the only object around. Apparently carbon fiber is just as bad as metal. BTW, hail forms in thunderstorms. If its hailing, and you're sailing, well, that helmet isn't protecting much.
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blireef



Joined: 20 Jun 2001
Posts: 65

PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lots of "previous menbers" of the debate team on this thread!! One thing that is true though is that helmets do protect against a blow to the head, but they do have their downsides and the biggest one IMO is whiplash caused by the extra weight of the helment when you get launched and hit the water going fast. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has had this happen to them.. it's tragic about the accident though... these are "extreme" sports we all participate in and we should all understand the risks involved.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 13294

PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tweeky wrote:

1. Are you seriously advocating sailing in a thunderstorm?

2. The claim he's making that a mast won't attract lightning is totally bogus, it sure will if the storm is over a lake and your the only object around.

3. Apparently carbon fiber is just as bad as metal.


1. Nope. Never did, never will advocate it.

2. As I informed Tweeky earlier, Charlie Moore, nationally acclaimed thunderstorm and lightning researcher at New Mexico Tech, says he's wrong, but that doesn't faze Tweeky.

Believe whomever you wish.

3. Yup ... but even a metal mast won't divert a lightning bolt more than roughly its own length. Hundred of millions of volts ionizes own conduction path, blows many thousands of amps through it, and isn't very impressed or distracted by a little old 15 foot sliver of metal or carbon.

\m/
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