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WMP



Joined: 30 May 2000
Posts: 623

PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dude... you need to get a cervical collar:

http://www.supports4u.com/cerp.htm

Wear THAT while sailing, heck, neck injuries can KILL.... driving can kill.... dang, just getting outta your van could kill ya. Why don't ya wear that helmet 24/7

Fatal wreck on Thursday at Narrows. Woman driving a big ol' 4x4 P/U with all sortsa cumple zone for safety. Drops her cigarette, reaches down to the floor to fetch it, crosses the double yellow line and hits an oncoming log truck.... BOOM!! Do I need to go into details about body parts that were burning inside the vehicle?

Did the safety railing they installed along that stretch of SR14 highway help?
Nope. Fact... the safety railing is the reason the log truck couldn't avoid the collision, instead the safety railing blew a tire tht caused the truck to swerve uncontrollably towards the 4x4 killing the woman driver. Again, do I need to go into details about body parts that were burning?

I guess it all boils down to this..... do you feel lucky today?
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ducks007



Joined: 27 May 2006
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 9:55 am    Post subject: debunking beachdozer Reply with quote

>I guess it all boils down to this..... do you feel lucky today?

Nope, it's about mitigation and prevention.

>why wear a helmet if you're all by yourself and you're efficient at what you do?

The real question is WHY take safety advice from someone who sails alone!? "But I'm efficient and good!"

>I can't dive under my board with a helmet.

Same guy who can't swim under barges while wearing life vests?

I've yet to read about a kayakers who doesn't wear life vests because they can't duck under logs.

If one likes diving so much, they should try scuba. And tell the instructor "no buddy system for me. I'm skilled enough to do this alone!".
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WMP



Joined: 30 May 2000
Posts: 623

PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 10:30 am    Post subject: Re: debunking beachdozer Reply with quote

ducks007 wrote:
>I guess it all boils down to this..... do you feel lucky today?

Nope, it's about mitigation and prevention.



Nope, it's all about thinking and acting safely.... making good choices. It's all about understanding how vulnerable and fragile we all are as human beings.... understanding the limits and realizing there are lines in the road for a reason.... and there's more people affected by your careless and wreckless behavior (should you choose this) than just YOU!!


If a helmet helps in this process... then you should wear a helmet. Problem is... many folks who wear them have a false sense of security... they do stupid things as a result.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14618

PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="tweeky"]
isobars wrote:
one day you'll find out just how good a lightning rod your mast is.


Sorry to burst your bubble, but a mast wouldn't make a lightning bolt deviate more than about 10 feet from its natural path, and certainly wouldn't trigger a bolt, according to my personal conversation with the nation's leading lightning researcher on expressly the topic of sailing thunderstorm winds -- which were our primary source of summertime winds in NM. When it's blowing a solid 4.5 for hours, we didn't question the source unless it was right in our face ... and some idiots not even then.

However, I'm sure some or most of the frozen $#!+ I've sailed in was sleet, not hail; only the latter requires t-storm updrafts. We didn't quibble about the distinction between sleet and hail, but the distinction is important for the reason you mention.

But now that you mention it, the REAL, certifiable idiots are the guys who get struck under sail by lightning, are rescued, re-rig (because their gear was destroyed), and get right back on the water minutes later. Those ... and the guys who stand outside the motor home in the huge, flat, dirt parking area, leaning against it to watch the idiots on the lake while lightning strikes within a mile every 5 to 10 seconds. Can you spell "grounding rod"? Maybe they were trying to protect their tires in the event of a direct hit.

\m/
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WMP



Joined: 30 May 2000
Posts: 623

PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 10:54 am    Post subject: Re: debunking beachdozer Reply with quote

ducks007 wrote:
>I've yet to read about a kayakers who doesn't wear life vests because they can't duck under logs.


Comparing apples with oranges here.... since when does a kayak move against the water moving 30+ mph? Do they get catapulted forwards by the wind at high speed?

When you get slammed into the water going at a very high rate of speed, the safest place to go is down and under the water as quickly as possible. Buoyancy of the helmet creates resistance to sinking that fast.... That's the problem.
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wsmike



Joined: 07 Jun 2003
Posts: 412

PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just last summer I saw another sailor go down in the wind and water at Florence. He was sailing with me that day, then his body washed up just as I got out of the water and the fire rescue was asking me if I knew who he was.

The Florence man was not wearing a helmet. Cause of death was determined to be blunt trauma to the head.

Each unto their own, you take your own risks in life. But just as wearing a seatbelt is a very minor inconvenience and restricts movement a bit, so too is a helmet.....payoff is that they can save your silly life. Not a bad cost/benefit ratio if you ask me.
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WMP



Joined: 30 May 2000
Posts: 623

PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wsmike wrote:
Cause of death was determined to be blunt trauma to the head. [/b]


Blunt trauma to the head which could have caused a neck injury. Like I've said before... your neck is the most vulnerable place on the body particularly when it comes to whiplash. Whiplash is more common when you wear a helmet because of the added weight and size of your head.... and a helmet surely doesn't protect your neck.

I'd have to ask if this person was experienced in those particular conditions and at that particular site. Fact is, anybody who is experienced and knows the risks is more likely to avoid an injury.

It is certainly a mystery about this woman who tragically died at Mosier. My theory (this is purely a theory) is that she sailed too close to the sandbar at full speed. River levels have been really low in the AM.... and the November floods have changed the size and depth of the sandbars. Best thing to do is avoid anything that looks really shallow.
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wsmike



Joined: 07 Jun 2003
Posts: 412

PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This thread is a parallel to all arguments related to:

    Anti-seatbelt laws
    Anti-helmet laws for motorcycles
    Anti-drunk driving laws


Until there is a law for windsurfers, you take your own risks, just like before all the above laws were put in place.

While there is no such thing as a "safe" world, there is room for safety precautions. But then again, look at guys like Glen Plake the extreme skiier with the rainbow mowhawk...he jumps off 100ft cliffs sporting his bright red hairdoe, no helmet, no pads. [/list]
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WMP



Joined: 30 May 2000
Posts: 623

PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Still talking apples and oranges with seat belts. You still have not proven that helmets prevent injuries while windsurfing. Where are the stats? Is there a HUGE number of sailors getting injured as a direct result of NOT wearing helmets? Of those seriously injured, is it proven FACT that they would NOT have been injured had they worn a helmet? AND what about those careless and reckless sailors with helmets that think they can do a loop over a dude in the water ' cuz they got "protection"... and then discover they made a mistake in calculations?

Here's an idea. Instead of spending so much worthless time on this helmet issue, there's some other issues that are more important. There's been lots of accidents in the last few weeks as a result of extremely low water levels in the river. Has anyone brought this up to the Corps of Engineers? I mean, if you really want to do something about a safety issue....here's your chance.
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wsmike



Joined: 07 Jun 2003
Posts: 412

PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince you to change your mind, I'm not a FACT machine either, I don't analyze statistics and spit out FACTS on command. I think its common knowledge that if you hit your head on something hard then you can get knocked unconscious. Unconsciousness in a deep body of water can be detrimental to your health, that is to say drowning, and therefore lack of life ie. death.

I don't think you're fishing for someone to prove you wrong, so that you can finally be justified in joining the helmet-wearing crowd. Its fine by me if you don't think helmets provide protection from blunt object impacts, its fine by me if you don't wear a helmet, its fine if you want to windsurf under barges without a helmet, life preserver, or body armor...just to prove that you can do it, I don't have a problem with that.

BUT don't call me a bungling idiot for considering my own safety by wearing a helmet, because when you do that, you sound like an idiot yourself.
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