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What's with the price of sails these days??!!
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jse



Joined: 17 Apr 1995
Posts: 1298
Location: Marin

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know if I'd recommend this for a 10 meter sail, but 5.5 or smaller, consider the Hot Sails Maui Superfreak. Mostly Dacron. Lasts a lot longer than monofilm or xply sails, very versatile and not too expensive. Most people (Not all) that have tried my superfreaks have gone out and bought their own quiver.

Also, I like Jeffrey Henderson's philosophy, which is not to invest heavily in pro sailors, and to make sails that will appeal to recreational sailors. His comments on the topic can be found here:

http://www.hotsailsmaui.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=439

Steve
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kevinkan



Joined: 07 Jun 2001
Posts: 1145
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

byronwilson wrote:

My questions to you all:
Does X-ply stand up to UV better than monofilm?
Is there some major advantage to X-ply which I'm not aware of?
Isobar, where can I get the sails you mention (err... but perhaps in a 5.9)?

Thanks,
Byron


X-Ply does stand up better to UV than monofilm, and it also handles "rigging crinkles" better than monofilm. It is a more durable material, and it also has a different feel... some people love it, others don't. I personally use full x-ply sails in sizes 4.7/5.0 and down, and go for crisper, more responsive monofilm w/ x-ply sails in the bigger sizes. Monofilm sails that have tight sleeves and a lot of luff curve rigged on fat masts seem to get the most "rigging crinkles", whereas I have a 4.5 Zone that I use a lot (big mono window) that looks pretty much new b/c I rig on a skinny, and the sail doesn't have a ton of luff curve, so I don't get any wear and tear on the mono from rigging/derigging.

kev
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14050

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why would someone throw away a sail because it needs repairs when it can be repaired flawlessly by the guys who designed and/or made it? (Northwave designs and builds and repairs theirs in Hood River; Sailworks designs, makes prototypes, and repairs theirs in Hood River.) Replacing a panel or repairing a luff sleeve or just putting in a new window 'cause yours is scratched costs a few bucks plus a little postage.

The primary advantage of X-ply its its tear strength; its lighter weight (because it doesn't have to be as thick as unreinforced monofilm) is a bonus. I sail way powered most days the Gorge blows, crash every few minutes when I'm REALLY having fun, and don't remember having to replace an X-ply panel in 15 years. If I punctured one, I'd slap on some UPS tape within a few weeks and fix it in the winter, 'cause the tear's not going anywhere.

I use Northwaves because I've preferred their performance and service above the hundreds of other sails I've tested over the decades. I've thoroughly liked most models of Sailworks' or Ezzy's comparable models, too, and their designers (Ezzy, Peterson) are real human beings, not faceless conglomerates, who stand behind their products. They're just a phone call or e-mail away, their repair facilities are just days away from you by UPS, Fed Ex, etc., and their websites are at your fingertips.

For me, it's also convenient, reassuring, and informative to walk into the design loft of Sailworks or Northwave in Hood River and discuss a product or repair with the guy(s) who designed the sail, will repair it, or even assembled it. I buy new sail quivers every 2-4 years, and all my sails but one individual sail since about 1988 have been full X-Plies built in Hood River. I'm just not interested in a sail that can blow up if torn or punctured and looks years old in its second month; none of my sailing buds uses non-X-ply sails, for the same reasons.

Why pay $900? A Sailworks X-Ply Retro 10.0 is a marvelous engine which lists at $715 and, I'd guess, costs less as part of a quiver. I'd bet an Ezzy 9.5 X-Ply Infinity, at under $700 list, is also an excellent sail.

\m/
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johnl



Joined: 05 Jun 1994
Posts: 1162
Location: Hood River OR

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I second the Northwave remarks. I picked up some used (1999 - 2000) surflite sails years ago (in 2001) and they worked great for 5 years. They are still going strong, but the lure of new sails pulled me into brand new ZX sails from Northwave in 2006.

I live in the bay area and my sails are used around the bay and for about a month in Hood River. Last year I sailed over 1200 miles on them (you have to love GPS devices). So they get their share of wear. I don't leave them out in the sun if possible (only while drying @ Sherman Island), but they get rolled up wet many times from bay sessions.

By comparison, I had a Loft O2 5.9 sail that I was VERY impressed with the performance. The cost was quite a bit less than other sails. However that lasted about 2 or 3 seasons and one panel broke and the other ones are looking weak. So I'm guessing a year or more left on that one (which is why I got new Northwave sails so I could replace the Loft sail).

So you can save money and go with less expensive sails that won't last as long, or pay a bit more. Northwave normally has used sails (only 1 - 3 years old max) for about 1/3 the cost and they last a long, long time.....
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 3512
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I THIRD the Northwave rap. Its the best deal in the sail world .period. Three ZX"s for 1200 bux, and if anything goes wrong, you just call Skip, ship it up to Hood River , he repairs it, and sends it back.

Boggsie.
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theq



Joined: 10 Apr 2000
Posts: 636

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:42 pm    Post subject: I saw it coming, but did I buy a bunch of sails? NOooooo. Reply with quote

Over the past couple of years, the prices of sails have been going up. My theory, was/is, that kiting has removed a lot of potential buyers from the sail market. The manufacturers don't make as many, so their fixed costs are spread out between fewer sails. This, coupled with the raw materials costs, etc., as mentioned earlier have driven the prices higher.
Don't let this stuff fool you though, there's really very little inflation. Laughing Laughing Laughing Rolling Eyes
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clem



Joined: 24 Apr 1996
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just got two Hot Sail Maui Superfreaks. Looking at the construction, I believe they are going to last a long time:

a. Sailmakers' leather reinforcement on the sail tip and batten ends.
b. Thick webbing on the mast sleeve. I see a number of sails that wear out from bits of sand, dirt, and small peebles that chafe away on the inside of the mast sleeve.
c. No monofilm that weakens from creases. One minor crease on a monofilm sail, and it's downhill from there. Even if you're really careful rolling up or unrolling a sail, it can still crease if something lies on top of the sail bag. Also when downhauling a sail, the monofilm in the luff pocket near the mast tends to crickle up. On the other hand, the dacron on the Superfreaks can take a lot of abuse.

Possible downside, is dacron will stretch, but there is a fair amount of Kevlar, reinforcement, so that I believe the stretching will be minimized, but not eliminated. Previous Hot Sails have used Kevlar, so this is not a new technique for them.
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ctuna



Joined: 27 Jun 1995
Posts: 508
Location: Santa Cruz Ca

PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 4:01 pm    Post subject: Well you can usually get 100 to 200 of msrp Reply with quote

Well you can usually get 100 to 200 of msrp if you shop around and inquire at different shops and on the Internet. I have heard that boards are about to take a big price hike because of exotic materials and the petrochemicals plus shipping isn't getting any cheaper.

Last edited by ctuna on Sat Aug 18, 2007 8:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
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tomg



Joined: 10 Apr 2000
Posts: 194

PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like JohnL I have one of the Loft 02 5.9M sails. I think I paid $460 for it a few years ago. It us looking beat these days because it gets the most use here in the SF Bay Area, and because it is the best sail I've ever had. Love it.
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andydavis



Joined: 11 Apr 1999
Posts: 268
Location: Point Isabel

PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 10:51 am    Post subject: Re: What's with the price of sails these days??!! Reply with quote

jillwinter wrote:
The Neil Pryde 2007 RS SLALOM 10.0 is listed at $900!!! Can you say second mortgage on the house? Thank goodness for swap meets!


I bought a Neil Pryde 2007 RS SLALOM 5.4 for $777 -- I'm hiding the expense from my wife! It's like having a new car...terrified of getting a scratch on it.
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