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Kiters at Leo, continued...
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 13850

PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nealpar wrote:
if I didn't stand up against A-holes like this guy who is well known for trying to force people off waves or chucking his equipment at full speed at you!


That's a first-class felony in many states, good for a few years in jail . . . up to life with a good prosecutor in WA . . . and legal grounds for the use of deadly force in many states. He's just one video recording away from being a non-problem if you folks want to have him prosecuted (it's tough to get away with using a deer rifle in a liberal state even though the law does arguably -- in some states explicitly -- authorize it). If it were my wife in his sights, it would not happen twice. I can't believe so many people allow ADW so cavalierly.

\m/
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tsokat



Joined: 15 May 1997
Posts: 326

PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nealpar wrote:
jpbassking, I'm surprised at your for implying that I may have "asked for it", or that he may have been justified in attempting to ram into me with his equipment and over 220 poundage! That's the type of logic used by guys who say that a girl asks to be raped when she wears a short skirt. Absurd! As far as defending me, thanks, but no need. I'm an assertive person by nature, but aside from that, try to imagine what it's been like being a woman and trying to wavesail at Leo over the years...I'd still be slaloming around, if I didn't stand up against A-holes like this guy who is well known for trying to force people off waves or chucking his equipment at full speed at you!

I believe I described the events of the day before, where the guy failed to observe basic boating law which says that each boat must veer to the right when on a collision course. At Leo, it works like this: The one heading out to sea, where the wind is on their right side, has right of way over someone heading back to shore, with the wind on their left side. Enough said about this.

My 2 cents' worth for the issue presented by this topic is to organize a "sit down" with the participation of the lifeguards, kiters and windsurfers, and try to work out a mutually workable solution. Pick a date, about 30 days out, to let everybody prepare, put signs up where possible to give notice of said hearing, and then be prepared to present a coherent argument for why kiters should be banned or restricted, or whatever...


NP, I am a fellow attorney and a litigator. We are essentially paid to solve other people's problems, and that can be very stressful. Sailing is a great way to escape all of that, and it a shame when the ugly side of life instrudes into our recreation time, isn't it? It would be sad if there were no reprieve from the battlefield. I try to keep my non-professional life as simple and non-controversial as possible. That is why when I arrive to find a lineup overly crowded with kiters at a place like Waddell I find myself, more and more, alone, miles offshore, playing in the big, cold ocean swells and just occasionally picking off a wave or two when something opens up. I just don't have the patience to wait in line or jostle for position anymore. It is all about overpopulation I am afraid. Now I know why my wealthy surfer friends spend large sums visiting private surf breaks in exotic locales. Maybe exploration and discovery is the way to go as things become increasingly more crowded. I am sorry that you were menaced by that thug at your break. He is an uncivilized coward who does not deserve to interact with decent people.
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nealpar



Joined: 25 Oct 1998
Posts: 624

PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jpbassking, I''l try to answer your question. I don't know if you are a wavesailor at Leo, but if you are, you would know that it is very difficult to be "THE ONLY ONE" on a wave, when the sets roll in, (unless it's an uncrowded weekday with small waves....). At any given cherished south swell occurrence at Leo, the wave junkies come out in force, including kiters, and it is at this point, that respect, observance of right of way rules, and general civility get tested. And tested, and tested, and tested, with each wave ...Smile

With time, we learn which wavesailor or kiter, for that matter, consistently gives others space to have fun on the SAME WAVE, or if they do improperly drop in on you, at least make an effort to get farther away on the wave so that they are not in your way.

I have noticed kitesurfers giving me my choice of wave, and choosing to take the next one, and I have extended the same courtesy to them. We learn to cooperate with each other, and that's the way it should be. However, there are some people who are simply unwilling or unable (I'll refrain from offering amateur psychology here) to comply. With time, you learn who these people are. Each of us handles these people differently. Some avoid them, some confront and yell at them, some play a joke and hide their boards when they aren't looking, etc...

jpbassking, you also misunderstood my lawyer joke to "theQ". As a lawyer, I feel entitled to be the first in line to make lawyer jokes.

As far as when to organize a "sit down" with the kiters: I talked to the main lifeguard yesterday at Leo, and he told me that it would be better if we tried to resolve this amongst ourselves BEFORE involving the lifeguards. He wants us to hammer out some workable set of "rules" before involving them. (too much work for them to do it themselves) He suggested appointing representatives from each side. I didn't want to tell him how difficult that will be...but maybe we should start working toward getting a small group from the kiters and the windsurfers, who can represent the interests of their constituents. Enforcement of any agreement may have to be done "informally" at first, and perhaps codified later, when it's been tested and proven successful!

Any takers on being the leader of the pack?
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nealpar



Joined: 25 Oct 1998
Posts: 624

PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tsokat, funny you mentioned going far out to sea to be alone.....b/c that's exactly what I did that day when the incident happened. No better place to blow off steam than playing in the swells far out in the open ocean..........where your fear of sharks and breaking down with nobody in sight kind of takes your mind off of the A-holes for a while! Smile

Perhaps the time is not too far that a new PI subspecialty will mushroom out of this increased population and crowding of our ocean sports, such that lawyers could actually make a living from just these types of cases.
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theq



Joined: 10 Apr 2000
Posts: 636

PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 12:46 pm    Post subject: Wind update from Saturday. Reply with quote

Well, that 4 millibar gradient did it for some, was marginal for others. I ended up rigging the biggest sail that I had with me, a 6.2M slalom sail. (Excuse me, I have to scroll down to escape that stinking, blinking, obnoxious ad at the top of the page. Whew! There that's better. No where were we?) Oh yes, I rigged my 6.2 atop my 98L JP FW. The best I could say about it for me is that I didn't have to swim in, and practiced some clew-first jibe-ends. I kept a close eye on those wind signs and played it safe. It was sort of a fog-push at times, even decent on the far outside where there was a stronger patch of sunlight. Mark, on his 7.0, Claudia on a 5-something, a guy Mike with a 135L board and 6.3, another guy with an Accelerator in the 100L range, were doing better than I. Perhaps I should layoff those celebratory post-session cervezas from now on? Or maybe start running again? Something.

Joke, compliment, insult, dig, stroke...all separated by the finest of lines, online. The bottom line: we're all friends here., I theeen.. Pax Oceana.
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jpbassking



Joined: 19 May 1998
Posts: 2354
Location: Leo

PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Perhaps I should layoff those celebratory post-session cervezas from now on? Or maybe start running again? "

no mas Colorado Cool Aid?? are you kidding? Razz

nealpar, i am not a wave sailor at Leo but I have been known to catch a wave or two. Or rather they catch me. I have surfed for over 40 years and would rather not have a sail between me and the wave. The same frustrations and rules apply to surfing as they do wavesailing. The surfer furthest back to the curl has the wave. I used to yell at people who would drop in on me but it just isn't worth it. There is always the next wave. Let us hope that our 220 pound friend will eventually adopt this mentality.

By the way, I surfed C-street this morning with about 100 other 200 pound plus surfers out and only the occasional 3 foot wave. Talk about a zoo. Cool
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traig



Joined: 10 Sep 1993
Posts: 186

PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Gang.
As in the early windsurf days at Leo, a group of us (this time kiters) got together and have been meeting with the lifeguards to set up rules (note signs for kiteing at Leo North Beach and sign for windsurfing at Leo stairs). It has been a constructive dialogue and has hopefully taken some burden off of the guards. Self policing and working things out amongst ourselves is imperative. A hight undermaned and underfunded State Lifeguard organization can not afford the man hours to police the groups. Writing tickets and bringing them to court of a few offenders in windsurfing down at Leo, to only have a technicality and a judges mistake allow the parties to walk with no real punishment had them thinking the time spent was in vain. A closure order at the time was iminent and the good heartedness of then captain Norm Chapman kept windsurfing at Leo wave zone. The permanent state lifeguards are weapons carrying piece officers as well as profesional ocean lifeguards, unlike their much higher paid stictly lifeguard county lifeguard cousins to the south. They have an incredible amount of work and must train a new batch of rookie guards almost every year. These newbee guards, generally from college swim programs but not knowledgable in the local kite/windsurf dynamic, are not the ones to ask about policy. You must talk to the unit guards, who will be a seasonal two at the minimum and have the information you request.


There is not a Ban on kitesurfing at Leo. The series of flags are to represent the ability to launch and land at a particular beach. Many of us as kiters launch miles above County line as to be able to go down wind all the way to the slot at Leo for the best local wind (Bernulli and Mother Nature decided this and not us) and wave with a south swell.

As in windsurfing, there are always a few bad apples and the same miscreant that was mentinoed above, almost killed me while doing his typical shoulder hop and missing me and my board by inches and a very hard cut back on my part. There is a view from some of the kiters that there is very little in the way of surf knowledge and ediquite amongst the kitesurfer ranks as most are slalom boarders in the waves these days at Leo. To this I reply that many have in fact studied the basic wave rule concept and a more ingratiating spirit needs to be applied to keep the spot open for both water sports. Remember the windsurfers that complained loudly to local agencies about the jet ski's at the Oil Peer's surf break? The judge put a closure order on vessels there but this covers windsurfers as well... They shot themselves square in the foot. I have been fortunate enough to lifeguard 26 years and know the kind of daily pressures involved. Concern number one is to keep the public safe. Windsurfers were the devil that many of you are now calling kitesurfers, as of just a few years ago.. Don't shoulder hop. Do circles to take turns in the waves and council those who perhaps are just using the wave area as a slalom zone or not aware of basic surf ediquite rules in the kite and windsurf comunity.

Leo is a magnet for surfing and wavesailing. We need to let the powers that be know that we can self police. We have been telling the LA County, Ca State lifeguards, sherriff, (LA C and Ventura), Fire Department (LA C and Ventura C) in meeting with them in kitesurf awareness meetings for the last ten years. We did the same with windsurfing. There are a lot more general beach users and surfers than kiters and windsurfers combined so we need to give them a reason allow us the PRIVILEDGE of continuing our sports in this great area. Our continued existence is a gift and you should thank the guards for their understanding daily. Surfers HATE the windsurfers and kiters, and this is what the average tower guard hears all day.. Think of how many waves you get while that poor guy has been sitting in that packe line up waiting for just one. I spent a liftime there. Oh yeah, most lifeguards are surfers... Do the math..
Have Fun and hope a bit different perspective helps. The kiters who came from windsurfing, have tremendous respect for the windsurf skill set.
All the best. Traig
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theq



Joined: 10 Apr 2000
Posts: 636

PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 9:58 pm    Post subject: Good points Traig. Reply with quote

I second this sentiment:

"Don't shoulder hop. Do circles to take turns in the waves and council those who perhaps are just using the wave area as a slalom zone or not aware of basic surf ettiquette rules in the kite and windsurf comunity."

Nobody likes a wave hog. Snakes, hogs, rat-packers, etc. are what convinced me to put up a sail in the first place. I liked the option of getting away from the crowd. I still do, which is why I spend a lot of time outside the wave zone. When I am fortunate enough to catch a wave, I like to ride it alone. This is not purely because I'm greedy, but because "sharing" can be unsafe, and severely limits my options for maneuvers on the dynamic surface of the wave.
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traig



Joined: 10 Sep 1993
Posts: 186

PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OOOPS....It was supposed to read..There is a view from some of the kiters that there is very little in the way of surf knowledge or ediquite amongst the windsurfer ranks and that most are slalom boarders in the waves these days at Leo. Don't shoot the messenger...The views some in one group have of the other is comical to say the least..

So since Mr Whitey has been cruising our area lately, what do you think about dipping offenders in CHANNEL DEAD SEAL NO II prior to go outs? Perhaps this would rate as an appropriate stimulous not to do the Bus stop Brd (Lay in water waiting for a set wave as too lazy to actually sail back and forth to earn it and meanwhile block the windsurf/kite corridor with rig?).. A potato gun barage for any kiter who comes down to the slot during a good swell just to jump might also work....DOOOHHHHHH!!! This is right up there with racing back and forth through the wave zone on a windsurf slalom board with no intention or ability to ride a wave...Maybe we could buy the guards a potato gattling gun for the tower II railing....Talk about monofilm repairs and mash potato kitemares...SNicker....
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dabull1



Joined: 19 Mar 1997
Posts: 519

PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 2:18 am    Post subject: Welcome back Traig! Reply with quote

Traig, welcome back to the side of goodness and light! I think the seal idea is great... yikes, I was bumped by our resident seal last week..maybe not such a good idea. Now the potato guns... I think our sharpened masthead blades would be more effective to counter those shoulder hops and line interference issues. Pax Leo!!! All hail the mighty Theq! Bull
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