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Kiters at Leo, continued...
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nealpar



Joined: 25 Oct 1998
Posts: 624

PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where is np when we need her???

First of all, I'm not going to render gratuitous legal advice on the internet, as I don't want to be sued later in the event it is misunderstood or misapplied.

Personally, if ANYBODY, whether surfer, windsurfer or kiter negligently, recklessly or intentionally causes injury to me, I will not hesitate to seek the appropriate legal remedy. Whether or not I will recover anything for my injuries or damage to my property will depend on the particular factual circumstances of the case...

Just a few days ago, another windsurfer failed to observe the right of way rules, and I was forced to take a fall in order to avoid a collission. A day later, this same windsurfer intentionally steered his board right on top of me as he was exiting a wave near shore, and as I was entering the water...to "intimidate" me and to humour himself. He committed assault, as his demeanor, size and intentional steering of his board toward me created a reasonable fear of imminent injury to myself = assault. I registered my complaint with the lifeguard, so there is a record of this incident, and it will be followed up! Noone should be placed in a position to fear for their physical safety, and everything should be done to discipline those that are reckless or worse....

However, I don't think it's fair to single out kiters. Personally, I'd rather have George the kiter spray me during a turn, than to have that certain windsurfer run his board into my face as I'm standing in waist deep water. The congestion is a different problem, and if not resolved, someone will indeed get hurt. Perhaps, the lifeguards are just waiting for an opportunity to shut us all down, and give it back to the surfers for good.

By the way, I've been to Belmont. Talk about a free for all. There is constant danger posed to beachgoers there, as well as kiters. There are too many gung ho beginner kiters there, so it's as dangerous as it gets.
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zephr



Joined: 30 Sep 1997
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well - so it's confirmed then - carelessness caused injury to others . Shame . Could have been prevented . And to think the guy actually ran away .

I hope the situation is being taken in by some of the kiters . I am very aware that a lot of them are great guys but it is getting hairy out there .

I seriously think that we need to make it crystal clear to the lifeguards and the powers that be that the difference between the two sports in regards to people on the beach are vast - otherwise when they start to police the area in a far more severe manner we may be thrown in with the same group and also banned . I say support them as much as possible and be very courteous in the wave line up with surfers etc - in other words once again common sense should prevail .

Having just read the previous post I can also agree with that - there are def some really aggressive windsurfers with the " I own the waves " attitude and the same approach to the "me " issue as some of the kiters .

Let's just keep a look out for idiots and make sure to say something when they act stupid . Be careful out there folks .

Thanks again for posting .
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jpbassking



Joined: 19 May 1998
Posts: 2374
Location: Leo

PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nealpar, there are always two sides to every story and perhaps this windsurfer thinks you somehow wronged him, cut him off, dropped in on him?

Never the less, picking on girls is not allowed and if you would like, we can have a little chat with him.
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zephr



Joined: 30 Sep 1997
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a thought - can we please have the moderators copy and paste both posts regarding the leo carillo issue to the kitesurfing forum ?

The issue is really about vanity - ie people doing dangerous things near to shore and endangering others in order for the onlookers to ooh and ahh .
windsurfers and kiters together are guilty and both have people that irregardless of whatever sport they take up they act the same way with the same regard for others . They make it all about themselves .

I think the issue that will result in the banning of both sports at leo is the safety of people on shore .

We can police ourselves on the water , but accidents on the shoreline will result in closure of the beach for all who enjoy both sports .
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theq



Joined: 10 Apr 2000
Posts: 640

PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 5:56 pm    Post subject: I'm sure that there's a law that prohibits such recklessness Reply with quote

"However, I don't think it's fair to single out kiters." Was that a legal opinion?
Laughing

I suppose I don't blame np for not wanting to give a legal answer. After doing a bit of research, I can see that any legal answer would be ridiculously complex, and certainly verbose.

That said, I'm sure that there are laws against putting the safety of others (unwilling) at risk while on public property. The lifeguards certainly know what they are.

I did hear the lifeguards yelling at some dude to "stay outside", and "you are breaking the law". I didn't see which kiter it was directed at. I have a suspicion though.

I think that I know what windsurfer np is talking about. If so, I sense that this guy sometimes/somehow thinks he has some extra right to the wavezone. Note: There is no sanctioned heirarchy determined by proximity of your house to the water. Granted, that's an ugly fact for some minute segment of the population. But, I'd hazard to say, is a thing of perpetual beauty for others, like me, who don't live at the beach. I give no deference to beach dwellers when it comes to waves, etc. They have many rewards just living there; Ownership of ocean waves and water is not one of them. Malibu-dwellers are given the same courtesy, by me, which is fairly broad in scope, as those who live in one of the valleys or elsewhere. No more, no less. I don't cut anyone off on waves, and expect the same courtesy, as does np. I hope that such courtesy prevails in the wave zone. Otherwise, it will be getting too dangerous.

It looks like Eddy is hugging Leo again. It's enough to make one a full-blown homophobe. For God's sake Eddy, get off of Leo. This is a family MB.
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jpbassking



Joined: 19 May 1998
Posts: 2374
Location: Leo

PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's the same crap with surfing.."if you don't live here don't surf here and locals only"..sorry, man we can't all be rich enough to live on the beach.

theQ, you write well dude. Are you an attorney too? Laughing
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theq



Joined: 10 Apr 2000
Posts: 640

PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 6:33 pm    Post subject: Attorney, no. Just a verbose bast--d. Reply with quote

No, not an attorney. Thanks for the compliment. I try to keep my writing skills as honed as possible.

When I was a young surfer, I used to think of printing up a T-shirt that said, "I'll go back to the Valley, as soon as I'm done surfing, and kicking some a--." Alas, I never did.

BTW: It looks like the pressure gradient has hit 4 millibars from Leo to the outside channel. Maybe Eddy has had his fill of Leo for the day? It just might be sailable soon, if not already. Hmmm....
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nealpar



Joined: 25 Oct 1998
Posts: 624

PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jpbassking, I'm surprised at your for implying that I may have "asked for it", or that he may have been justified in attempting to ram into me with his equipment and over 220 poundage! That's the type of logic used by guys who say that a girl asks to be raped when she wears a short skirt. Absurd! As far as defending me, thanks, but no need. I'm an assertive person by nature, but aside from that, try to imagine what it's been like being a woman and trying to wavesail at Leo over the years...I'd still be slaloming around, if I didn't stand up against A-holes like this guy who is well known for trying to force people off waves or chucking his equipment at full speed at you!

I believe I described the events of the day before, where the guy failed to observe basic boating law which says that each boat must veer to the right when on a collision course. At Leo, it works like this: The one heading out to sea, where the wind is on their right side, has right of way over someone heading back to shore, with the wind on their left side. Enough said about this.

My 2 cents' worth for the issue presented by this topic is to organize a "sit down" with the participation of the lifeguards, kiters and windsurfers, and try to work out a mutually workable solution. Pick a date, about 30 days out, to let everybody prepare, put signs up where possible to give notice of said hearing, and then be prepared to present a coherent argument for why kiters should be banned or restricted, or whatever...
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nealpar



Joined: 25 Oct 1998
Posts: 624

PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear "theQ", I think when the guy asked you "are you an attorney", he was insulting you....it wasn't a compliment......... Wink
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jpbassking



Joined: 19 May 1998
Posts: 2374
Location: Leo

PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nealpar - Are you implying that you have never droped in on a wave that someone is already on? Not that I justify his behavior. It is after all, only a wave.

I am well aware of your ability to defend yourself but I thought that a face to face with this person might clear up some misunderstanding and prevent any future incidents?

Your idea of a pow-wow with the guards is a good one but why wait 30 days when the season is almost over? How about next weekend?

As for my remark to theQ it was not meant to be an insult but merely a joke because I happen to know he has a pretty good sense of humor.

How does that joke about attornies at the bottom of the ocean go?
Not enough attorneys or not enough ocean? I don't remember it that well. Rolling Eyes
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