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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935
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 Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:57 am Post subject: |
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| 4rest wrote: | Some of you are out for blood, I understand being angry cause something doesn't go your way
I'm curious about confirmation of Isobar's report of a kiter killing a windsurfer. Can anyone confirm this? |
"Out for blood"? Angry because something doesn't "go our way"? What part of ADW do you not understand? We're not talking about ineptitude or honest mistakes; we're talking about 1) deliberately, recklessly endangering the public by boosting big air into crowds, 2) physical assault on another person (grabbing his gear on the water), and 3) and direct, deliberate, repeated ADW in the cases many of us watched at Rufus. Even if some officer is reluctant to arrest an offender, all a victim has to do is press charges and the officer must act (and maybe explain why he refused to do his job in the first place).
If the kiting community doesn't put a stop to this criminal activity, public pressure will quite likely further limit their access as it already has in so many venues around the nation and the world.
And I'm not aware of a WSer killed by a kiter; it was a female kiter killed by another kiter in a race in Europe 2-3 years ago. Even the kiting industry admits to 17 kiting deaths since 2000. |
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4rest
Joined: 25 Jul 2004
Posts: 18
Location: Gorge
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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I thought we were talking about whether we could share the water, not about cops and what you think. The one constant thing I've noticed is that people that get lots of time on the water don't spend much time on these forums.
For everyone else, I hope the stuff I mentioned helps you have a better, safer time on the water.
| isobars wrote: | If the kiting community doesn't put a stop to this criminal activity, public pressure will quite likely further limit their access as it already has in so many venues around the nation and the world.
And I'm not aware of a WSer killed by a kiter; it was a female kiter killed by another kiter in a race in Europe 2-3 years ago. Even the kiting industry admits to 17 kiting deaths since 2000. |
I think you're doing a fine job of putting a stop to the criminal activity, probably time to stop getting out on the water, put on your hall monitor badge, get a camcorder and get some evidence!
Besides with all the challenges kiting has faced, it still continues to grow at a pretty alarming rate.
There has been way more than 17. I think it's around 58. |
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tweeky
Joined: 19 Sep 2004
Posts: 256
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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Forrest, grow up or go back to nwkite. You're not a Gorge local like your handle claims. You're living the very example of the problem, which is telling people if they don't like being harassed, then stay off the water. I don't need a bunch of patronizing advice about what to do or what's going to happen if a kiter crashes into me while being a jackass.
You need to get it through your head, that kiters, "polesmurfers" swimmers, boaters, WHOEVER have the right to enjoy the water without being a target for some idiots amusement, and are obliged to conduct themselves in a manner that is reasonably considerate and safe to others.
When you got bit by Nessie on the Spit, you didn't like the whole "geez, just chill dude" attitude, but now you are doing the same thing here.
As for your comment "the one constant thing I've noticed is that people that get lots of time on the water don't spend much time on these forums"... DUDE! YOU"RE HERE AIN"T YA?!?! Gawd, talk about a flawed cheap shot argument. |
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heidi924ron
Joined: 12 May 2007
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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Is this the same "forrest" on nwkite calling "bs" and "little credility" to our concerns about the carbrinha kite dude at the hatch last sun? To bring you up to speed we've lived in the gorge for a little over a ten years now and I work in healthcare HERE so I can recite as many kitemares as you need. Most of our friends kite AND sail. My wife and I have spent many afternoons playing with a trainer kite but just haven't caught the bug. (there's just sooo much fun stuff do do when you live here, ya'know.)
I sat at my buddy's computer with him as he explained how his first CAD program was helping him design the earliest kite demos. How the lines worked, the foil, the leading edge, the materials, blah,blah,blah. I drank beer at Cascade with the heads and watched Freddy lay up some of the first kiteboards to come out of there (then drank more beer). I was at Rufus watching Cory Rooselar boost huge ass air on a waterski and then people picked his brain on his gear and how it worked and then they boomed his deal to the masses. POOOF... kiteboarding is now a sport. My point is I DO understand the dynamics of the kite and you know what dude, it's a @$*kin' sweet sport and people go big! However, folks at the hatch don't need education on how a kite works, how a kite will pass, how to pass a kite etc etc etc. Guys should just know better than to launch there on a busy day. People should know better than to HELP them launch their kites too! The sports don't mix when it's CROWDED and CROWDED is sometimes really fun at the hatch because the energy is awesome. Well, enough about it...I hope this lends to my credibility because as you know I haven't posted much. I just don't sit around on not one but two forums ejaculating about my hobby all day. OH SNAP! |
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tweeky
Joined: 19 Sep 2004
Posts: 256
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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| heidi924ron wrote: | | Is this the same "forrest" on nwkite calling "bs" and "little credility" to our concerns about the carbrinha kite dude at the hatch last sun? |
The one and only. He's now posted on nwkite how he's tried to "educate us" etc etc... What's so bizzare about all this stuff is Forrest was bit by a dog at the spit not long ago, and when he posted a complaint about that on nwkite, it started an absolute war. Then he comes here and starts talking about how "we're out for blood" because "things don't go our way". What a hypocrite.
But I like your post. You're right, we don't need to be "educated". The same way that Forrest feels that he should be able to go kiting at the Spit without being bitten by someone's dog, we should be able to go out sailing on the water without being harassed by some kiter whos "killing it".
I feel like I'm getting old by saying this, but what is happening out there? Get bit by a dog, nailed by a kiter, park so that you block the only beach access, whatever it is as soon as you say something its "chill dude". I've even had a little kid throw rocks big enough to do damage at my board while I getting ready to go out. The mom was right there, I asked her to please stop her child when one bounced right off my board, and her response was "oh, just mellow out".
I'm really surprised that people sailing the Hatch did not confront the kiter in question. There's little anyone can do after the fact. If the people who are actually suffering the transgression are not going to step up and take a stand, a forum isn't going to bring any justice to the situation. But since Forrest is into education, here's a little story for him:
When I was in high school, kids used to go out Halloween night causing mayhem, especially "egging". It got almost like a riot each year. Our teacher told us that in his small town, years ago, the same situation occured. One year, a store owner got his store front window smashed in and looted. The same thing happened the next year, and he was told that if he made another insurance claim, it would be denied. Year three and the kiters, opps! I mean the kids show up, they're gonna smash his window in with a trash can, and he comes out with a deer rifle and shoots one of them dead, right on the spot. In my other home town, some kids were shot and killed while tearing up a farmers field on a joy ride.
My point is, you never know what people are capable of. A kiter might be grabbing a windsurfer, trying to make him crash and thinking its all in good fun, only to be in a totally different situation and out of his depth when he comes back to shore. I've seen people pushed over the edge before, really, and when they snap, their wrath will fall on the closest, most convenient target, and will likely be disproportionate to the original transgression.
If we kite, windsurf, boat or whatever in a manner that is considerate to others, these problems don't occur. But go out there and be a jerk, and you may reap the whirlwind. |
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WindsurfUtah
Joined: 08 Jul 2006
Posts: 93
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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I have always felt that windsurfing was missing something but I couldn't put my finger on it. Now I can, we're missing gang warfare. Now besides my helmet, harness, extra line, tool kit, camel pack, life vest, parachute, seven flares, and WW2 army radio backpack I will need quick access to a stiletto.
Maybe next year we can decide who gets the hatch and event site by a battle royal. The board shorts over their wetsuit tea baggers versus the neon clad hippie polesmurfers. Of course it won't come to that because the kiters know we windsurfers have so much equipment they would never make it over our fortress wall of old boards, plus our fins are big.
Realistically IMHO kiters will eventually find their own spots and will stick to them. As much as we windsurfers don't want to be in danger, kiters don't want to put themselves in danger. I can't imagine being the guy landing on someone’s 15 foot skewer, being dragged 35 mph into rocks or tress, or lofting because the wind was way to strong for the kite I thought was about the right size for the conditions. I have noticed kite board instructors making safety first a priority in their lessons. How much do you bet that many of those kiters return to the hatch because they miss the days of great wind and swell as a windsurfer. Maybe just a visit back to the old stomping grounds before they realize what kind of mistake it is.
Maybe the approach should be "I don't want to see you get hurt, so stay away for your own good." Come back to the hatch when the wind is less enticing to windsurfers but still good for kiters. |
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tweeky
Joined: 19 Sep 2004
Posts: 256
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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| gracie wrote: | | so when the hatchery is less enticing for ws and good for kiters shouldn't the ws stay away so they don't get hurt? sounds like a double statndard coming! |
That's a very valid point. Its sort of what they do in Aruba, kiters in the morning until 10:30am, then no kiting until 4:30pm, but I think the windsurfers get the better part of the bargain.
But I agree with you on this one Gracie. The water is for everyone, and kiting is the new sport that a lot of young people seem to be taking up. I think the big strike against kiters in the eyes of the grey hairs, is just the amount of room it takes up. A kiter yelled at a lady for walking on his lines at Viento, but he had them covering the whole path to the water. I saw a newbie kiter (not in the Gorge) try and tell over 20 windsurfers standing in a bay to get out of the way because he was going to launch. This had nothing really to do with "attitude" but more an unrealistic expectation on his part. It was years ago, and I thought then "wow, if you need that much room, you're just going to have to do that somewheres else".
All that aside though, kiting is not a "fringe" sport, there's plenty doing it, and they have as much right to the water as anyone else. I do think we might all be happier if there were "kite only" and "windsurf only" spots, but that's sure to piss someone off. Look at Stevenson though, that seems to work. The point used to be a windsurf launch, but now its mostly kiters, and the windsurfers use Bob's Beach. I think that's great myself. |
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4rest
Joined: 25 Jul 2004
Posts: 18
Location: Gorge
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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-Sorry, I'm glad you two know about kiting. You could probably share a little of it with your fellow Wind Surfers. Wasn't trying to patronize. I guess kiters are just used to the danger our sport poses and don't get so aggro about it. I figured a little info about what to expect would be useful.
-Yea, I'm not a local, I just live and spend my money in the Gorge. Want a copy of some of my utility bills or receipts? It has nothing to do with being a local or not. What about the people that live in Portland, are they not locals?
-Wasn't saying if you don't like the conditions to get out of the water, was just saying taking a cheap shot at Isobars. (Read some of his other posts and I think he's spot on with what the actually problem is, Access.)
I was actually looking for more info on this event cause it sounds like the type of thing people will use to generalize. That's why I came here thinking I could be of some assistance in tracking this person down and speaking with him. Btw, I said "I'm calling b.s. on this one till I see someone confirm." Am I not allowed to be a skeptic? But your right, I leave you guys to it!
I hope you guys don't hate me for what I said, discussion is good either way don't you think? I hope if we ever meet in person we can be positive cause its far to easy to be a total dick online. My apologies for that. |
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4rest
Joined: 25 Jul 2004
Posts: 18
Location: Gorge
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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| BTW, the dog war had nothing to do with me. |
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tweeky
Joined: 19 Sep 2004
Posts: 256
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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| 4rest wrote: | | I guess kiters are just used to the danger our sport poses and don't get so aggro about it. I figured a little info about what to expect would be useful.. |
Forrest, I think your posts nails the whole problem or at least a big part of it unintentionally. I don't care and I bet no one else does either when your sport is a danger to you. Its when it becomes a danger to me that we have a problem, but again ("don't get so agro") its the "chill dude attitude". This is the fundamental problem. You think that when we windsurf, being put in danger by kiters is just par for the course. How about I grab my jet ski and buzz you at 40mph and 2 feet away. Guess jet skiers are used to the danger and don't get so argo about it. |
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