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Feeling ill . . . Someone Might Listen
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bobgatpdx1



Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 384

PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi ledel,
Since you seem to know this topic - I have a question for you:
- Couldn't the CGWA do its own testing for its members benefit?
- Any idea how much this would cost?
- Any suggestions for who could perform the testing?
thanks,
bobg
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Terryg11



Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 55

PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. sailing/swimming location :
Event site to Hatch (always launch at Event)
2. time of year
April to present.
3. type of symptoms and their duration
Sinus problems, runny nose. Stuffy ears.
4. Average number of times people are in the water a month
25 Days (?)
5. average duration of time in the water total
Hard to say. Normally, don't fall in. Some days, though, I fall a whole lot.
6. typical number of times people actually swim and dunk their heads in a month (lol)
Maybe every third day.
7. do you get these symptoms if you windsurf or kite at other places?
No. Nope. No. Nada.
8. contact info (name, email, address and phone #.) if you feel uncomfortable, email this this info to the email list above.
9. additional comments/information:

The water is really nasty. You can feel it.
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billgfc



Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Posts: 226

PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 11:40 pm    Post subject: hydration Reply with quote

Hi all

In the last string, I wrote:

I have been sailing the Gorge since 1980 and rarely if ever have any of these symptoms. As most outdoors folks know, you do not drink the water in mountain streams in the wilderness anymore than the Columbia.

Second, I had many of these stated symptoms while skiing and living in Utah at High Altitude. In 98% of cases it was lack of hydration. I would get stuffy nose, parched throat and a variety of cold symptoms.

We are sailing in a rather dry windy environment here. Note how fats potted plants dry out in a breeze. The most complaints seem to occur after nuclear wind days. Remember, the are often preceded by very warm dry spells with low humidity.

Drink water , lots of it. A professional in Sports Fitness may have the best recommends, but my memeory suggests a cup of water minimum for every 1/2 hr outside and maybe more for on the water depending on body size

It is important to add hydration data for at least a couple days an dthe day where we feel awful

EXAMPLE

I was at Candlestick in 22 to 35 wound like crazy on Sunday. It did not help that I had gotten up at 3 45 am thirsty and then more so after the flight. I did not drink much until sailing, then only a few after. Itook two days to drive back up arriving in HR after midnight Tues.

Today, I have been totally nauseated, tired, and achy joints , including sinus headache. I did wear doc's proplugs earplugs. I ahve been drinking water like crazy.added a few pretzels to improve absorption on advice of a friend. Crackers etc work too. My upper head still hurts as I go to bed, throat has been very raspy

I have experienced same symptoms when I get very dehydrated in the water or out

Summary: Testing is very important, CGWA did testing for several years in the past, also spent quite a bit of time with the Greenpeace crew when they went up the river to test in 1985.

Allergies also need to be isolated,ear plugs are important for safety. Normal background factors in the water need to be isolated to do this right.

I might add that my nose gets runny in winter when I ski more and more since I have entered a master s swimming program, doing a ton of swimming over the past few months.

To not include hydration and ear plug precautions as on the Docs Proplug website and medical sites dealing with ear issues and water, could bias the results.
It s all good , lets just eliminate other factors with same symptoms
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4444



Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

interesting topic, from Canada, sail here a few days a year so my data is likely inconsequential. Suffice it to say: I sail mostly ocean but also fresh water lakes at home. Everytime I come down I notice my wounds, small sail cuts, blisters etc. don't just have a delay in healing while sailing in the Gorge but actually inflame more. They last for days while I'm here whereas at home things heal in a day Rolling Eyes
As far as water quality concerns there is a lot of truth to hydration or lack thereof causing symptoms of sinusitis but the taste of the water of the Columbia is really unmistakable. Whenever I get a good mouthful I retch. Sinus infections occur as well but it\s the shortlived nausea I get and dry heaves that concern me more.

As much as I love sailing here once a year for a week or so you poor people should be all over your local agencies to curb pesticide and effluent/toxic waste spewed into this gorgeous river. Its criminal.
\i wonder about checks done on bilges of powered craft on the river, is there a protocol for that? I know tugs wreak havoc on our lower end of the fraser River Evil or Very Mad
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ledel



Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To address bobg's question, it is possible for CGWA or another group to take beach/water samples and have them analyzed, but to do it right requires a good sampling plan developed or approved by experts, with quality assurance controls. And analysis for toxics gets fairly expensive( we're not talking huge cost but significant in the thousands) . Since EPA and Oregon DEQ representatives are copied on this chain ,perhaps they can advise us on what it would take to get a sampling program for select Columbia R sites similar to Coast beach monitoring. The agencies have data on discharges from permitted sources such as mills and potws. They know what's going into the river from those point sources. What we don't know is whether we're getting any concentrations of nasties at localized areas where we do a lot of water contact activity in the summer months..
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alohannie



Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 4:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Feeling ill . . . Someone Might Listen Reply with quote

1. sailing/swimming location
Stevenson
2. time of year
June-September
3. type of symptoms and their duration
I don't get any symptoms - no allergies eithor.
4. Average number of times people are in the water a month
I sail about 3-4 times per week in the summer. sometimes more, sometimes less.
5. average duration of time in the water total
I sail about 2- 3 hours a time.
6. typical number of times people actually swim and dunk their heads in a month (lol) Laughing
I spend very little amount of time in the water, swimming and dunking my head. Ususally just to cool off.Thank goodness- but usually get my head wet 1 time per sailing session. I don't remember the last time I had a nose/mouthful of water.
7. do you get these symptoms if you windsurf or kite at other places?
no
8. contact info (name, email, address and phone #.) if you feel uncomfortable, email this this info to the email list above.
alohannie@gorge.net
9. additional comments/information:
Many years ago I scratched my shin on a rock at The Hook. It festered and took weeks to heal. I still have a scar. I do not sail there any longer.
I feel very lucky that I do not have any symptoms like those expressed by many sailors.
I'll give a call to you and Eva about what I know at the paper mill plant. Unfortunately my BF is unavailable for 3-4 weeks. He's fishing in Alaska and is not on that job any longer. I told him I was going to report that company. When Isobars mentioned his symptoms from that part of the river, I had to comment.
Thanks for your efforts-maybe someone will listen... and maybe something positive will happen to help heal the Columbia.
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eastfork



Joined: 10 May 2007
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

4444 wrote:
interesting topic, from Canada, sail here a few days a year so my data is likely inconsequential. Suffice it to say: I sail mostly ocean but also fresh water lakes at home. Everytime I come down I notice my wounds, small sail cuts, blisters etc. don't just have a delay in healing while sailing in the Gorge but actually inflame more. They last for days while I'm here whereas at home things heal in a day Rolling Eyes
As far as water quality concerns there is a lot of truth to hydration or lack thereof causing symptoms of sinusitis but the taste of the water of the Columbia is really unmistakable. Whenever I get a good mouthful I retch. Sinus infections occur as well but it\s the shortlived nausea I get and dry heaves that concern me more.

As much as I love sailing here once a year for a week or so you poor people should be all over your local agencies to curb pesticide and effluent/toxic waste spewed into this gorgeous river. Its criminal.
\i wonder about checks done on bilges of powered craft on the river, is there a protocol for that? I know tugs wreak havoc on our lower end of the fraser River Evil or Very Mad
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tetiaroaxx



Joined: 08 Nov 2006
Posts: 225

PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smile

Last edited by tetiaroaxx on Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14176

PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tetiaroaxx wrote:
I would like to know the list of ingredients of the Columbia river, and have for some time but could not find one on the internet. It's just good to know what's all in there.


Since I'm going to sail there anyway, I don't wanna know, short of sewage spill advisories. It's pollen, farm chemicals, industrial chemicals, heavy metals and PCBs and dioxin and occasional sewage at Clatskenie, natural radiation from the Blue Mountains, and man-made radiation and toxins from Hanford . . . probably more or less in that order. But so what? I drive, eat, breathe, race(d) dirt bikes, and have genes; one of them will kill me anyway, but I'm going to enjoy the trip. Sat and trans fats will kill far more of us than Columbia River pollution will.

\m/
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billgfc



Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Posts: 226

PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:49 pm    Post subject: ears and healing Reply with quote

when in Maui I am always warned about very high risk of infection with any cuts. I was shocked. The word I got was there is much more background bacteria in that warm tropic water.

so what is same in ANY river minus pollutants, many of which float to the bottom to be part of layered sediment.

I have been told it is never good to allow water in your ears to remain because it can harbor infection from the moisture. That can be called swimmers ear.

Ear drops are very important. Another option suggested in a health publication is to blow a balloon up three times to evacuate water.

The standing water in your ear is the likely culprit. Take care of it regularly and you will have less problems

Also it cannot be said enough. Hydrate. next time you get symptoms , ask yourself honestly how hydrated you were in the 24 hrs before , during and after sailing.

Take these steps always. To not is to render, other data posted here unscientific. We need the truth on the water. By isolating dehydration poor ear care etc. the data will give us more.

My professors and teachers in school and college were relentless with understanding background data and variable which skew research.

Also remember you are sailing in open water in bright sunshine with high wind, very dehydrating all far more so than kayaking or such in smaller waterways. In general those waterways are colder, that may have impact as well
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