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Civility on the coast
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Epenrose



Joined: 05 Nov 1997
Posts: 398

PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 7:58 pm    Post subject: Civility on the coast Reply with quote

I sailed a killer spot North of Waddell yesterday.

One windsurfer (me) and 4 kiters.

Not the easiest spot to sail with some logo high sets rolling through, making the launch a little iffy.

Came back in after a couple of hrs of a killer session and what a great attitude from the crowd at this wave spot.

Seems to be so much aggro at many sites, the stand off between kiters and windsurfers.

Ended up having beers with the guys kiting and what a cool crowd. They made the same comment, people seem to get into a click and forget the civility on the water.

Nobody was in anyones way, attitudes were great and stories afterwards better. Nobody fighting over waves.

Amazing how a little respect on all sides can make for great sessions where we all share the water and have amazing sessions.


Seems the harder and more remote the spot the nicer the people.

My two cents.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5683

PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You touch on a crucial point in the scheme of things. While I remain a windsurfer after better than 22 years, I must recognize that many of my old pals have switched over to kiting. Yet, still, many remain focused on surfing in the classic sense.

Reflecting back on my surfing days, 23 years before I even realized that windsurfing even existed, I knew readily that the a reasonable balance must exist at the prime wave spots where crowds were a factor. Of course, much must be founded on reasonable surfing etiquette (with respect to the guy closest to the top of the incoming peak), I still find that the most talented folks get the cream of the crop in the lineup, regardless of discipline and the absolute details. As long as things balance out overall, all things considered, life is grand and fulfilling. One has to appreciate when all things must be in a sense of balance overall to please all parties. With the lastest introduction of SUP, the situation only gets more dependent on respect and a sharing nature.


Last edited by swchandler on Sat Jul 07, 2007 12:22 am; edited 1 time in total
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SWE106



Joined: 14 Feb 2005
Posts: 263
Location: San Mateo

PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes, utopia seems unfortunately often very far away.

Yesterday at waddell I, windsurfer, crashed into a kiter in my bottom turn when he did a drop in on the wave. I was already on the wave, even more upwind the the kiter, getting ready for the cutback and whooops there it is: a kiter simply drops in from no where, wrestling his way through me while keeping a straight upwind course and, without even a word or a blink, keeps on going while I am knocked flat. My sail hit his lines, I could just avoid a frontal collision...

To me this is such bad attitude, such bad behavior, such irrisponsible style, such typical kite mentality that I have stopped being amazed and appalled by this rather general kite mentality (except the few good guys!).

Let it be clear the rules of WINDsurfing in the waves are simple:

1) The board on the way out has right of way (only if possible, try to make an effort to give the board on the wave a clear path, just to be nice); NOTE: this is opposite to surfing!!!
2) A board picking up a wave first has right of way;
3) When two boards catch a wave at the same time, the one closest to the peak has right of way;
4) When it is impossible to determine possession based on rule 2 and 3, the upwind board has possession (when 2 boards gybe on a wave for example).

These are not some made up rules, but also the offical PWA wave rules:
http://www.pwaworldtour.com/uploads/media/Part_3_WAVE_PERFORMANCE_RULES.pdf

Kiters have to follow the exact same rules!

Just stick to those and life will be so much easier. So from now on, no more short jibing, no drop ins, no stealing, no sneaking, etc. Be a man, accept your losses and take the next wave instead!
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 3467
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 9:20 am    Post subject: Wave Reply with quote

Let me get this straight. Im sailing in towards the beach at Waddel, riding a wave , and a kiter comes into my grill on my right, and I cant jibe or do a bottom turn, because hes right there on my right. Is this my right of way to jibe?
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SWE106



Joined: 14 Feb 2005
Posts: 263
Location: San Mateo

PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

good question. The kiter could of course also be substituted for a windsurfer. I assume from what you write, that you are the first on the wave and that the kiter is also comming in. Right? In that case you have right of way and the kiter has to keep clear. See also the universal PWA wave rule 3.9.2 and 3.1.5. Very simple!

ps: be a true hero and do not degrade yourself to someone elses low level but stand above it! Do not on purpose attempt a full on collission course, but make sure and clear to the kiter you have all the right in the world to go full steam ahead by going a determined and aggressive course.

pps: "local" arguments for not following the wave rules, such as "but I have sailed here for 20yrs and you have not", are to me absolutely invalid. For example, just because you have commuted to work on the same piece of freeway for 20yrs does not mean you are allowed to speed, dui, etc. Try that on the CHP next time you get caught...

Good locals (should) know their spot so well that they can make sure that not so local boarders only get to ride the left overs, while only applying the wave rules. Bad locals will use all the ugly tricks in the book to get their wave. You as a guest on the other hand should also behave as a guest, but do not let the bad guys get away with it. Simple.
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bipbip



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 76

PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...sorry SWE106, but "Simple" and "Very Simple" my ass!

I'm so freaking intimidated that I don't even wanna go anymore.
(Half of the readers are now cheering; the other half couldn't care less anyway)

And I've been sailing 20+ years without ever a problem.
Barbados, Maui (ok: I avoided Hookipa...), Dominican Rep., Europe... NEVER a problem.

In 7 years sailing Crissy never a problem (and we’ve got some kite 'traffic' there), at the bridge it also gets narrow from time to time.

I don't understand why as soon as this surfing-tribe mentality comes in, we need to talk localism, “collision courses”, and “aggressive charging”…
Like there’s not enough ways to hurt yourself, on the water.

Of course, rules are important, and the rules you mentioned are tattooed in my brain, but: they are PWA rules… FOR COMPETING…
You may forget them momentarily, get confused, or simply not have time to apply them…
I much more relate with Epenrose: “a little respect on all sides can make for great sessions”…
Or Swchandler “reasonable surfing etiquette”, stressing the ‘reasonable’ in that…
‘Cause everybody makes a mistake every so often (the guy throwing away everything at any aerial jibe, doesn’t count… =not reasonable…).

I would want to see people sailing with a smile (even faked… for Christ sake!), and really look out for each other… otherwise I rather stay in the office (more cheering…).
Guys, let’s just take it easy: THIS time there are REALLY plenty of waves for everyone, and we are not swimming (with the Landlord) to catch them, so easy everybody!

Because rules need enforcers and judges, and I don’t go sailing for that (and I bet you don't either).
Good manners, instead, go a much longer way.
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SWE106



Joined: 14 Feb 2005
Posts: 263
Location: San Mateo

PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bibib, I totally agree with you that everybody should be reasonable, smile, use common sense and have tons of aloha spirit. Our sports are only about having fun, nothing else.

Unfortunately, that is not reality and not the way people work. For some dropping in is totally reasonable, just like killing is for a serial killer, and for most of us it isn't. That's why we have 4 simple wave rules. Everybody has different ideas and opinions about what is common sense, etc, so we need universal rules to keep things simple and organized.

I only referenced to the PWA as an example, to show that these rules apply everywhere. Also in competition. No need to bring your rule book on the water, we can all remember and apply 4 rules.

Of course we sometimes forget. We are only human. But society doesn't run on common sense only. Neither does any other sport. All sports have rules, so does windsurfing, surfing and kiting. We should know the rules and use them to avoid total anarchy and survival of the fittest behaviour.

Please refrain from taking phrases such as "collision course" and
"aggressive charging" out of there context. You may start to look like a journalist.

These are RULES, not LAWS so we don't need any special enforcements. We apply them ourselves. Starboard goes for porttack. We all know that and we all use it. Simple! No "buts".

In summary, it seems as if you somehow misunderstood what I wrote, but I am happy to hear you never had a problem in 20 years. On the other hand it almost sounds to good to be true and you could maybe be somewhat oblivious to what is happening around you on the water .

aloha!
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5683

PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like I emphasized earlier, there needs to be reasonable balance. While the concept of rules might be a bit too stiff a concept, there's value in proper etiquette and structure in social matters, including the execution of competitive sporting concerns. While surfing has always been a kind of free for all, there has always had to be some sensibility and balance overall. Otherwise, conflict quickly resulted. I've seen and experienced it when things get out of whack. Anyone doubts the issue of conflict really hasn't been at the center of things. Hey, localism has always been on the underside of human behavior.

Really a sharing nature needs to be nurtured. It's hard in a world where selfish interests drive us all. Still, I think its important to note that all folks really want to finish their session with a positive note. When we all keep coming back to the same spot to play the game again and again, we need to be thoughtful about history and the best balance for all. The sharing nature goes a long way to ensuring happiness for us all.
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SWE106



Joined: 14 Feb 2005
Posts: 263
Location: San Mateo

PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

schwandler, you are absolutely right. But please see gracie's comment.... that is why we need 4 simple rules. Sharing, happiness, nurture by nature, aloha, common sense, smiling, positive attitdue etc will never suffer from applying them thoughtfully. Why would otherwise soccer players, for example, still like their sport while it has tons more rules compared to ours?

aloha
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5683

PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What gracie said, and additionally, what you're saying readily fits into what's happening. Nevertheless, in today's arena are somewhat different disciplines. It hardly needs too much mention, but kiters really have the edge when it comes to the wave scene, at least in my haunts. Their down the line capability is unequaled. Their ability to use the flats ahead of the wave easily substantiates that without question.

But let's get serious, if a handful of kiters wants to hang tough in the lineup, they can win every time with the rules, as they can always start higher on the peak.

Am I going to let them have it all? Not for a second. I want my due, and if that means taking off in front of them in the right circumstances, then they'll have to live with it. I'm going to feed at the trough too. That's how it's always been in the surf game, because everyone wants to have a worthwhile day for their time, even for the newest kook on the scene. Hey, the kook might be able to easily kick your ass if it came to a physical confrontation.

Still, a sense of rules (reasonable etiquette and a sense of sharing) let's every one benefit in the laws of nature. Frankly, an absolute hard interpretation of rules must be reserved for contests where official judges can make a decisive call. Otherwise the laws of nature affect things.
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