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jp5
Joined: 19 May 1998
Posts: 3394
Location: OnUr6
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 Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 2:29 pm Post subject: Political rant - part deux...if you dare |
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It's been too quiet around here so it's time to have a little fun so here we go.
Where would this country be today if Senator Kerry had been elected president instead of King George?
any takers???
Rowena, TheQ, Isobars, chandler.....Bueller..?? |
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gregorvass
Joined: 21 Nov 1996
Posts: 1113
Location: Behind You
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| Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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The 50's are over!
Join the rest of the world! |
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D-wo
Joined: 13 May 2004
Posts: 239
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| Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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Perhaps the better question is: Where would we be now if Gore was elected in 2000 instead of having Bush installed?
Kerry was a weak candidate, a placeholder for the dems. A errand boy sent by grocery clerks and he failed to collect the bill.
What if McCain were elected in 2000? Would we still spying on our own people and advocating torture? Would we have had an Attorney General who claimed that the right to habeas corpus is not guaranteed by our constitution? Would McCain have duped the American people into starting a ridiculous and costly war?
I don't care what your political stance is; Bush is abysmal.
_________________
mountainbikeoc.blogspot.com |
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935
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| Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:51 pm Post subject: Re: Political rant - part deux...if you dare |
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| jpbassking wrote: | | Where would this country be today if Senator Kerry had been elected president instead of King George? |
For starters, blown to bits along with Israel, open floodgates along our southern border along with an open drain of our economy, under some form of Euro-socialist government including yet another crumbling and bankrupt version of Hillarycare, chaotic knee-jerking to public opinion polls rather than sticking to an idealistic goal that may or may not be realizable, taxed to hellenback with the ensuing busted economy, under the largest tax increase in the history of the world (Google Rangel tax increase), realization that global warming legislation is crippling and bankrupting the world yet achieving nothing at all because Mother Nature still trumps rhetoric and outright BS, fed up to our eyeballs with another officious First Lady, facing grave threat of submission to Islam or China or North Korea because our military has been emasculated from within, crapping on yet another nation we promised the sun and moon to but turned our backs on when the going got tough, under government-enforced suppression of the same counter-balancing talk radio that revealed and defeated Bush's amnesty program, fed only the Party Line by a sycophant and even co-conspiratorial media with no checks or balances from the Right 90% of the nation, wishing to hell for the good old days of firm and consistent even if oft-bungled GOP leadership, trying to bail countless failed windmill farms out of bankruptcy ... and STILL facing the absolutely horrible possibility that Comrade Hillary will be our next president (you ladies do NOT want her to be our first female president; it'll set your gender back a hundred years).
I've done my part, from the heart and from man-years of studying this crap. I'll leave it to the rest of you to degrade this into childish, nit-picking chatter rather than informed debate. I hope to avert my eyes from the ensuing train wreck unless it returns useful, relevant, substantive, supported facts and opinions.
Is my punctuation acceptable?
That do ya, BassMan?
\m/ |
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gregorvass
Joined: 21 Nov 1996
Posts: 1113
Location: Behind You
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| Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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History shows that one nation will never win against the entire rest of the world!
Does anybody get this????????????????? |
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935
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| Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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| D-wo wrote: | What if McCain were elected in 2000? Would we still spying on our own people and advocating torture? Would we have had an Attorney General who claimed that the right to habeas corpus is not guaranteed by our constitution? Would McCain have duped the American people into starting a ridiculous and costly war?
I don't care what your political stance is; Bush is abysmal. |
Before we could name one negative impact of government spying on us, I'll bet we could Google scores of benefits in addition to the hundreds of cases still classified. Spy on, MacDuff, as long as it continues to increase my freedom. And never-ending shame and disgust on the arrogant media and congressmen who sacrificed our freedom on the altars of their egos by revealing our techniques.
What government official has advocated or condoned torture? Didn'tcha notice that the DoD was already investigating and preparing to prosecute Abu Grav before the media latched on to it? Didja notice that the NYT plastered Abu Grav facts and lies involving individual miscreant soldiers on their front page > 60 times yet never mentioned in its entire front section the Medal of Honor earned by SEAL Michael Murphy who deliberately sacrificed his life to save his teammates?
Didn'tcha know that habeas corpus was suspended by Lincoln, and that equally great presidents did far more spying than Bush ever dreamed of? Precedent, my man, and, IMO, necessity. Our constitution was never intended to doom us to defeat, and leaves a lot of gray area which we should use rather than avoid. It's the black area, not the gray area, that should be forbidden when our lives are at stake.
Admittedly ridiculous in its post-Saddam execution in Iraq, I -- along with the vast majority of senators, representatives, and present and former presidents -- still believe deposing Saddam was justified based on the best knowledge available at the time. Most also believed that the additional goal of promoting a free nation at the center of the terrorist world was also a valid goal, but now, of course, it's plain to even Bush supporters that he bungled that part dramatically.
Costly? Consider its costs if we had NOT invaded Iraq: maybe 10-20 times as many civilian deaths in Iraq from Saddam or insurgencies and purges if we walk away, far more U.S. citizen deaths -- and on U.S. soil -- if even one of the attacks we KNOW we averted had succeeded, far higher economic costs than the measly trillion bucks the war and 9/11 each cost, even more complete lack of respect (spelled F-E-A-R in the Arab world) than we command now, the continuation of the only openly admitted state sponsorship of terror, and a wide variety of WMD out the wazoo. Hell, even WITH the war we've seen the insurgents use WMD just months ago.
McCain in 2000?
Well, 10-20 million illegal aliens, all criminals by definition, would now be citizens, along with their aunts, uncles, cousins, grandparents, grandchildren, dogs, and cats, alongside or even ahead of the law-abiding Mexicans who foolishly emigrated legally.
McCain-Feingold.
Bush hasn't done much right beyond keeping Islamic terrorism out of your neighborhood, building a record economy, decimating the budget deficit far ahead of projections despite an unexpected trillion-dollar attack on our soil and an unexpected near-trillion-dollar war, vetoing a bill that would force you and me to pay for health insurance for children whose parents earn $83,000 a year and whose parents would rather buy their own far superior health private insurance for their children, refusing Congressional pressure to walk away from our commitments to the people of Iraq and Afghanistan and let them die like we did in southeast Asia and eastern Europe, trying to force the democrats to reduce our dependence on foreign oil, increasing VA funding by 40% years ago, pouring huge additional funds into education (despite proof it does not help), continuing to oppose the Kyoto Protocol even if he COULD legally sign it, and putting his sworn oath to protect your life above all other pressures. He's screwed a lot of things up, all right, but at least he's not a classic defeatist, poll-driven socialist, which puts him far ahead of his party's opponents in my book.
\m/
Last edited by isobars on Sun Oct 28, 2007 6:42 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935
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| Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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| gregorvass wrote: | History shows that one nation will never win against the entire rest of the world!
Does anybody get this????????????????? |
I suspect Islam has a real chance of busting that paradigm if the left half of the free world doesn't wake up and smell jihad. MAYBE China has a chance of outlasting the rest of us, but not by much, IMO.
\m/ |
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swchandler
Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 10588
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| Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Without a doubt, isobars hasn't lost his super hard right edge in the last few weeks. I hope that helps him out beyond the next election, because I don't think things are going to turn in his direction. After most of us had to stomach the Bush/Cheney fiasco for nearly 7 years, it only seems fair that the other side feels the pain for a while. I can hardly wait for late January 2009. |
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jp5
Joined: 19 May 1998
Posts: 3394
Location: OnUr6
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| Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Ok, what is the real threat to the american way of life. Is it Al Qaida, China, or our own corporate greed? What party plays into the corporate world and what party truely supports the middle class? The republican party, for which I have been a member of since 1972, isn't doing that, IMO. There is no stability in the corporate world now with mergers, and reoganizations, capitialism has run amoke and it's time for the government to step in and protect the working class. I think Senator Kerry was the man to do that. King George could care less. |
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geohaye
Joined: 03 Apr 2000
Posts: 1437
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:51 am Post subject: |
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The biggest problem we have is Republican vs. Democrat: It is a false paradigm that we are either red or blue and that's it. We must dislike the other. And with the climate we've all built now, we must hate each other. No exceptions.
We were born Independent and then one day we are forced to "register to vote" -- at which time most of us are in essence forced to become red or blue. It's the national religion that most of us share -- though we sit exclusively on one side of the isle or the other.
But we SIT and without usually knowing it, we follow the leaders of our party blindly and unquestioningly reject the other guys. ...But intellectually deep-down somewhere buried, we know that "the other guys" are damn right about several issues about which our own chosen-and-sworn party totally blows chunks. |
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