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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14611

PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jjamesonn wrote:
I saw two collisions at high speed off the Event site two weeks ago between windsurfers. People came off the water and were apologizing for trashing each other's equipment. If a kiter had run into them they probably would have pressed charges.


I'm not too worried about surface collisions. I've got a ton of control over my gear, good reactions, some bomb- (and proven collision-) proof boards, and there's (almost) always the river to dive into. I don't let people stay near me for long (if they try, they soon learn it's a bad idea) nor stay near them, so except at impossibly crowded venues like the Hatchery, even surface collisions are not that likely for me. That said, I've put my board through 2 or 3 other boards which rammed me out of nowhere, so $#!+ happens. Whether the law gets called in depends on whether the collision was caused by human error, blatant stupidity, or aggro recklessness.

But when somebody lands a jump on top of someone else, injury is far more likely, and is not the result of simple error. Leaping into the air in a crowd without control of one's landing spot is reckless endangerment at the very least, aggravated first degree ADW in the case I saw at Rufus of a guy repeatedly attacking windsurfers from the air, and in a case like that the perp is going to prison.

\m/
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gorgekite



Joined: 26 Apr 2002
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

why do people who are so angry about other people being close to them spend their time at the most crowded spots.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14611

PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gorgekite wrote:
why do people who are so angry about other people being close to them spend their time at the most crowded spots.


Close isn't the primary current issue; the primary issue, as presented in the longer current thread on this topic, is the threat of having kiters land on others' heads when they launch huge air over crowds of moving people.

Next comes the issue of kite lines overhead. They very easily remove meat from bone if line meets meat while there's power in the kite. That's a primary reason so many agencies around the world separate kites from windsurfers and swimmers.

See Tweeky's accurate "screw you" comment above. Certainly it applies to many WSers, too, but not at the rate we see it in kiters, and I've never seen a WSer repeatedly deliberately attack other water users as I have a kiter.

We spend time at the crowded spots for one simple reason: that's where the wind and river access meet, and the even rarer swell further concentrates crowds.

That said, today's ripping at the Hatchery, tomorrow will rip at the Hatchery, and the weekend may rip at the Hatchery. But I'm sitting at home for one simple reason: the Hatchery is too GD crowded in the summer for me to enjoy; I'll be there again in September if that's the only place I can find wind. Angry? Of course not; just sad because my sailing style is not compatible with shoulder to shoulder to shoulder to shoulder windsurfing. They're welcome to it. I don't do big cities, and I (very seldom) do mobs on the water.

\m/
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tweeky



Joined: 19 Sep 2004
Posts: 256

PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gorgekite wrote:
why do people who are so angry about other people being close to them spend their time at the most crowded spots.


Its a legit question, and gorgekite, just so you know, it was one I mulled over through last winter. I realized that my enjoyment of the sport was being hampered by a mixture of too many people and too much testosterone. This season I've made different choices for where/when to sail with avoiding crowds being a priority, and its been great. Also, if I do choose to go to the Event Site on a Saturday, I'm mentally prepared for it to busy, and take that attitude that hey, I knew it would be like this.

I don't sail angry. I love windsurfing, and to me its just fun fun fun on a good day. What surprises me a bit in this thread is Isobars experience/post when he seems to be sailing completely different sites than me. It sounds like he's seen exactly the kind of dickhead behavior by kiters as I have. To me it really shows that kiting in general has a problem with windsurfing. In Aruba, I was told they could just not get the kiters to leave the windsurfers alone, so now at Fisherman's Hut beach they keep them seperate for most of the day.

The only thing that gets me now with kiters, and its not all that common for various reasons, is when the wind is up and down, there's maybe 6 guys windsurfing and 3 guys kiting, tons of room, I'm slogging and then along comes Mr. Kiteboarder to buzz within 2 feet of me. If I try to bare off, they bare off, if I try to round up, they round up. They seem just hell bent on "getting into it" with someone on the water.

When windsurfing came along, I don't recall that there was some other sport that it targeted as "the enemy", it was just a new thing that was fun. There is definitely an under-current to kiting that is anti-windsurfing. What's that movie that just came out...? "Taking the Point" or something, about a spot in California where kiters are "taking over" a site where a lot of people windsurf. Why is it windsurfing? Why not "yachting is cancelled" or "kayaking is cancelled"? Anyways, I am not a target for their amusement. Buzz me too close, and you might get a yell. Buzz my wife, and as one kiter found out, congrats, you've just logged your worse day of the season.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14611

PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tweeky wrote:
Buzz me too close, and you might get a yell. Buzz my wife, and as one kiter found out, congrats, you've just logged your worse day of the season.


Just a "yell"? Hell . . . that's what Ampro gray waves are for. Since I "buzzed" a close friend years ago at what I thought was 20 feet and neatly sliced his barely submerged 13' Skinny mast off two feet from the top, I don't "buzz" any more . . . or tolerate buzzers. Risk is a double-edged sword.

A Hobie Cat flying one hull once blasted through a large mass of slogging and/or downed longboarders at our local lake many years ago. He ran over my wife's rig a few feet from her head. Big mistake: he was 30 feet off a beach of nothing but acres of fist-sized rocks and heading into to a dead-end cove he had to back out of. By the time the Hobie got out of range we had bounced quite a few rocks off his boat and crew; we didn't let him near the shore -- or the only launch -- for the rest of the day.

I always figger a-holes need another one.

\m/
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heidi924ron



Joined: 12 May 2007
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alright boys and girls I've got to call out the COMPLETE Jack@#* kiter at the hatchery today Sunday the 15th. If anyone was there to witness the guy on the carbrina kite launching himself thru the very busy hatch will people please step up. I've have been a fan of kiting from the start, a long time friend of mine has a succesful kite business and I certainly appreciate the athletic abilities of those that can boost the fifty foot airs but what is the point of getting increasingly aggressive the more people you piss off. I saw at least 4 windsurfers have to completely throw themselves into the water with their rigs to avoid being clobbered by this guy. Many others simply had to make drastic directional changes to give this guy the room he demanded. When people yelled at him he would just cut them off more and jump closer. Then....he climbs out of the water super stoked yelling, and I quote, "I was owning it out there, did you hear all those people pissed off and yelling at me, it was sweet. I was killing it!" What is going on with the windsurfers? There should have been 10 guys waiting for this dude when he got out of the water. It should have been clear to this guy and the guy who launched him that there are soooo many other places he should be kiting rather than a busy day at the hatch. My buddy who is a avid kiter,windsurfer,and surfer said that if this guy pulled that stuff at seaside those boys would dropkick his a#$. Now I'm not saying that we should be gettin all militant and slashing his tires or busting his windshield (although this is common practice at many of the northwest surfbreaks if you're an idiot) but trying to be all rasta cool or bro' down with a anyone that obviously doesn't give two shits about the people sailing is total crap! Wheeew. Honestly, I mulled over making a post in this forum for several days. I think kiting is super rad! This was just the final straw to make me speak up. Avid kiters, do these guys exist at the "kite spots too? How do you guys handle it? Anyhoo, like I said before, this kind of disrespect should have been met with ten guys pointing the way to highway 14.[/i]
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14611

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 2:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plain and simple: videotape him and have him arrested and prosecuted (it's a felony times many counts; he could die of old age in prison if the judge chose to give him the max sentence on even just one count).

Does no one have any balls any more? People are supposed to act if they see a crime being committed. even if just to lift a phone and call 911. 911 should have received a hundred calls on this felon; the sheriff would have hauled him off in an instant (in New Mexico ordinary citizens are authorized the use of deadly force to stop him.)

\m/
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gorgekite



Joined: 26 Apr 2002
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can sympathise with anyone who has to deal with someone who is causing problems but prison time. I had a friend who had and employee steal 40 grand in the dalles she got 4 days I saw on the news that people arrested for stealing cars in portland are out that day. If no one gets hurt your best coarse of action is to deal with it as a group on the spot. I talked to a kiter that confronted another kiter at the hatch a few weeks ago. This guy has always been a problem even when he windsurfed. Some people are just Dicks.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14611

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gorgekite wrote:
I can sympathise with anyone who has to deal with someone who is causing problems but prison time. I had a friend who had and employee steal 40 grand in the dalles she got 4 days I saw on the news that people arrested for stealing cars in portland are out that day.


Car thieves in WA see no prison time until their 6th or 7th conviction. That's just wrong. It encourages crime. I prefer NM's approach; we could shoot car prowlers on sight, and a sheriff advised me next time my neighbor threw a rock towards my wife to put him in the hospital then call the sheriff and have him arrested.

Threats against innocent people must be dealt with in whatever manner it takes, whether it's talk, physical intervention, criminal prosecution, or civil court and whether it's reckless endangerment on the water or radical Islam. Anything less and we've made our own bed. If a group of "concerned citizens" puts this kiter in the hospital for the season, he might realize that his actions have consequences, and that those consequences belong on the head of the instigator, before he injures a hair on one of his victims.

A skiier center-punched my wife without apology 39 years ago. I couldn't catch him the first time, but managed to catch him the second time he did it. Presuming he survived (I didn't bother to check and don't give a damn), I am certain he has never forgotten the incident and never did it again.

\m/
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gorgekite



Joined: 26 Apr 2002
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dude you have been married for 40 years props for that.
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