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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 8708
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2021 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrgybe wrote:
boggsman1 wrote:
Yeah....quaking

Another non sequitur.......but I know you are trying your best, so well done you!


it's my version of Mad Magazine's "snappy answers to stupid questions".
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wsurfer



Joined: 17 Aug 2000
Posts: 1421

PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2021 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrgybe wrote:
After three decades of relentless government promotion and subsidies, solar intermittently provides about 1% of global energy needs, all backed up by hydrocarbon power plants. Carbon sources provide 84%, no back up needed. The oil and gas industry is quaking in its boots.


Yeah, no backup needed...just ask Texas!
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 16660
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2021 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The renewable energy is expected to meet nearly 13% of the total energy demand and is expected to grow at an estimated CAGR of around 5%, during the forecasting period. Investments in the wind power sector increased by 3% in 2018, compared to that in the previous year, reaching USD 129.Dec 16, 2020


Quote:
Levelized cost of power from this typical solar system installed on a home in California over 25 years is 6.0 cents/kWh. Average cost of utility power over 25 years (if you don't get solar) is 44.0 cents/kWh. This shows that solar is a far cheaper way to power your home in California over the long term.


Buggywhip makers hate change. Was my point that solar generation costs have gone way down?
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mrgybe



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 5073

PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2021 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

boggsman1 wrote:
it's my version of Mad Magazine's "snappy answers to stupid questions".


Keep on with that "I refuse to grow up" thing you told us about..........it's really working for you.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 16660
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2021 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As soon as news comes out that the temperature has in fact gone up by 1.7 degrees F, the disinformation industry goes to work, and their stooges get busy.
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 8708
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2021 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrgybe wrote:
boggsman1 wrote:
it's my version of Mad Magazine's "snappy answers to stupid questions".


Keep on with that "I refuse to grow up" thing you told us about..........it's really working for you.


Noted...Thanks for the value -added commentary Mr. G. always good, always useful.
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 3966

PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A different perspective on Green Power:

Quote:
The End Of Green Power Is Just Over The Horizon
May 9, 2021 By Wayne Lusvardi

It is more likely that the environmental and economic public policy pendulum will have to swing back to clean fossil fuels and green power will become obsolescent.

Part 1 of this two-part article presented evidence that refutes three green power lobbyists’ contention that green power did not cause California’s summer 2020 power blackouts. But neither were the blackouts caused by failure of natural gas power, the impacts from climate change or delay in rolling out a 100 percent green power grid, as they contend. This is because the power blackouts of 2020 had more to do with the California Independent System Operator’s (Cal-ISO) failure of its Energy Imbalancing Market, rather than fossil fuel or green power. California depends on imports for 25 percent of its electricity.

Western Power Time Zones and the Solar Duck Curve

Not only were importers hoarding power, their states get darker earlier requiring conventional natural gas and coal power to kick in.

Michael Schellenberger recently stated:

“California couldn’t find any more power from Arizona, Nevada, or Oregon, which were also struggling in a heat wave with low wind speeds while being located to the east of California and therefore in the dark sooner. – Michael Schellenberger, “Why Renewables Cause Blackouts and Increase Vulnerability to Extreme Weather”, April 20, 2021.

Because Arizona, Nevada and Utah are located easterly of California, they are in darkness sooner than California. During heat wave of the summer of 2020, it couldn’t import enough backup power from those states because they needed it for their own needs as they had switched to a greater proportion of solar power in their energy portfolios. Before solar power penetrated the market, these states had no daily energy crisis due to solar power phasing out at the end of each day, called the “Duck Curve”.

California has an Energy Imbalancing Market (EIM) run by its Independent System Operator (CA-ISO) to import power each day during the sunset hours when solar power fades out. But during the blackouts of summer 2020, the EIM failed in part due to a time zone difference in the availability of solar power as well as out of state providers hoarding backup power because of their greater reliance on intermittent green power.

The Texas blackouts of the winter of 2020 occurred because of something similar. Texas’ power grid is self-contained and depends on the availability of wind power from its western sector, solar farms in the central and eastern sector and scattered natural gas power plants to be available if there is a sub-regional power outage. But the snowstorm and freeze of 2021 was statewide, leaving no untouched backup power source to supply other areas. Cloud cover and snow blocked out solar power and froze wind turbines, as well as wind was nil. And the snowstorm hit west Texas harder. Moreover, solar radiation varies vastly across Texas from west to east.

Solar Power Soon Sunsetting

Lobbyists are paid to lobby for their clients. And California has to continue to reduce air pollution in its peculiar smog traps. So, the advocacy for clean power by the above-cited environmental lobbyists is acknowledged. But soon there will be zero emission natural gas power plants that will be reliable 24/7/365 except for down time for maintenance. Nat Gas power plants can be relocated back to near where customers live without costly transmission lines from solar farms located hundreds of miles away that have to run through forests where windstorms can cause deadly dropped power line fires in California.

And zero-carbon natural gas power plants can reduce the price of wholesale gas power about 55 percent from 4.2 cents to 1.9 cents per kilowatt hour without all the unreliability of solar power and mere 8 hour availability each day. The California Energy Commission projects the future price for concentrated solar power will be about 5 cents per kilowatt hour ($0.049) but that excludes the transmission and costly “smart grid” coordination costs and cost shifting.

The lobbyists for zero emission Nat Gas power plants will be showing up at the CPUC soon and the game of political football will change. Exacerbating the public policy problem is that green power has never delivered a public health payoff (other than from other personal health measures unrelated to cleaner air) as to asthma or lung cancer rates in California. Such health maladies are primarily human immune system issues in the first place. And the notion that climate change contributed to the overblown Coronavirus epidemic is just “batty”. Physically, climate change (i.e., global warming) is not an air pollution issue but a theoretic upper stratospheric matter in the first place. Countries located around the hotter equatorial zone don’t necessarily suffer from greater air pollution for air has to be trapped to result in pollution just as stagnant water is not safe to drink.

What will be the responsible environmental option once green power is challenged by lower cost, equally clean, natural gas power? It is more likely that the public policy pendulum will have to swing back to clean fossil fuels and green power will become obsolescent. But political lobbying by special interests won’t become obsolescent any time soon. Contrary to their call for phasing out gas power altogether, the three green power lobbyists I have engaged on this issue do not realize that the time to move on from green power is just over the time horizon in California.

Wayne Lusvardi, a recent émigré from California, temporarily resides in San Antonio, Texas, and worked on a task force dealing with the California Energy Crisis of 2001 for California’s largest urban water agency.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 16660
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting article Techno. I don’t think that zero carbon natural gas is yet ready for prime time; so far there is one pilot plant. It also won’t replace electricity for lowering home heating and cooling because it is only done at a plant. And we’ll have to resolve the methane generation issue to embrace it. But Lusvardi may be right that carbon capture for natural gas is a better solution than green power. I’m okay with that if the issues can be resolved On the other hand, this may be another chapter in the battle for the future between centrally generated power and local power. Time will tell.

Thanks for a provocative post.

The technology is reviewed here: https://www.technologyreview.com/technology/zero-carbon-natural-gas/
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 16660
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To add to the point. When the Republican party was engaged in subjects more profound than bashing immigrants and suppressing voting, they used to suggest smart alternatives to regulation like pollution taxes. Worked pretty well for acid rain. Might it make a comeback for carbon?

Quote:
On Thursday, the first event of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce's 2021 EnergyInnovates series will take place at 10 a.m., on the topic of permitting and transmission. Why it's worth watching: The Chamber of Commerce made waves in January when it endorsed climate action and a possible carbon tax, pivoting from its previous stance just as Democrats' policy priorities took hold in Washington, D.C. Nearly four months later, the event, which will feature Republican Reps. Garret Graves (La.) and Rodney Davis (Ill.) and White House climate policy official David Hayes, will take the stance that building new clean energy infrastructure is needed now more than ever. And it will explore what the Chamber describes as the "inefficiencies" of the "byzantine" federal permitting process and potential bipartisan options for infrastructure investments.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 16660
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2021 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From Morning Consult:

Quote:
Activist investor Elliott Management Corp. has gained an unspecified stake in Duke Energy Corp. and is in talks with the company to add directors to its board and potentially to sell assets or make operational improvements, people familiar with the matter said. The $79 billion company has $55 billion in debt and has recently had its long-term debt rating lowered, due in part to a settlement over the cleanup of coal ash from Duke's plants. (The Wall Street Journal)


Allowing coal burning facilities to ignore the proper management of their waste is only one of the many ways we have subsidized the cooking of the planet.
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