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If still undecided with 2020 election
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 16655
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All who disagree with mrgybe are guilty of moral failings.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 10124

PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Explain to me the rationale that can be used to support taking a human life simply because that life is an inconvenience?"


Wow, what a challenge from such a righteous figure here! Seems that he wants you in the box of his choosing right at the start.
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 4083

PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrgybe wrote:
coboardhead wrote:
You have applied a judgement of Mr. Biden and Ms. Harris based on YOUR interpretation of Christianity.

No I haven't. I have applied Biden's own publicly stated beliefs against his actions. How many times do I have to say it? He believes abortion takes a human life, yet he actively encourages the taking of that life. No one can wear two hats on this matter. If Biden, or other Catholic politicians, struggle with "imposing" their beliefs on others, then they should remove themselves from any position which presents that conflict, or distance themselves from the Catholic Church. To do otherwise in utterly hypocritical.

coboardhead wrote:
The teachings of Christ are not compatible with accumulation of great wealth.
Where did you get that from? Please don't embarrass yourself with the "eye of the needle".


coboardhead wrote:
....how can you criticize Biden for his reconciliation of supporting choice?

Explain to me the rationale that can be used to support taking a human life simply because that life is an inconvenience?


So. If I understand you. A Catholic who believes in choice should not remain in the Church? But, a Catholic who may not agree with the Pope who stated that unequal wealth is “an injustice that cries out to heaven.” are under a different set of rules? Am I to understand that the Pope's views are only valid if they agree with yours?

Just to be clear. I'm not arguing about the Catholic Church. I am aware of their deeds of charity. My view is that Biden has chosen to keep his governance and his religious doctrine separate. Many Catholics pick and choose just how far they go with following Church doctrine (birth control, holy days of obligation etc. etc) in their daily lives. Are they all hypocrites and should distance themselves from the Church?

You define human life at a different point than I do. So, we cannot have the argument over the rationale behind supporting choice. I do not see first trimester abortions as anything close to the taking of a human life. My views are consistent with Roe v Wade and I do not support an expansion of that law.

Speaking of the Catholic Church and this election, Mrgybe. How do YOU rationalize Pope Francis's recent Encylical which warns that Trump's style of nationalism is “a concept of popular and national unity influenced by various ideologies is creating new forms of selfishness and a loss of the social sense under the guise of defending national interests" with a vote for Trump?


Last edited by coboardhead on Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 16655
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If still undecided, consider this cruelty:

Quote:
By Michael D. Shear, Katie Benner and Michael S. Schmidt
Published Oct. 6, 2020
Updated Oct. 7, 2020, 8:54 a.m. ET

1026
WASHINGTON — The five U.S. attorneys along the border with Mexico, including three appointed by President Trump, recoiled in May 2018 against an order to prosecute all undocumented immigrants even if it meant separating children from their parents. They told top Justice Department officials they were “deeply concerned” about the children’s welfare.

But the attorney general at the time, Jeff Sessions, made it clear what Mr. Trump wanted on a conference call later that afternoon, according to a two-year inquiry by the Justice Department’s inspector general into Mr. Trump’s “zero tolerance” family separation policy.

“We need to take away children,” Mr. Sessions told the prosecutors, according to participants’ notes. One added in shorthand: “If care about kids, don’t bring them in. Won’t give amnesty to people with kids.”

Rod J. Rosenstein, then the deputy attorney general, went even further in a second call about a week later, telling the five prosecutors that it did not matter how young the children were. He said that government lawyers should not have refused to prosecute two cases simply because the children were barely more than infants.

“Those two cases should not have been declined,” John Bash, the departing U.S. attorney in western Texas, wrote to his staff immediately after the call. Mr. Bash had declined the cases, but Mr. Rosenstein had overruled him. “Per the A.G.’s policy, we should NOT be categorically declining immigration prosecutions of adults in family units because of the age of a child.”

The Justice Department’s top officials were “a driving force” behind the policy that spurred the separation of thousands of families, many of them fleeing violence in Central America and seeking asylum in the United States, before Mr. Trump abandoned it amid global outrage, according to a draft report of the results of the investigation by Michael E. Horowitz, the department’s inspector general.

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The separation of migrant children from their parents, sometimes for months, was at the heart of the Trump administration’s assault on immigration. But the fierce backlash when the administration struggled to reunite the children turned it into one of the biggest policy debacles of the president’s term.

Though Mr. Sessions sought to distance himself from the policy, allowing Mr. Trump and Homeland Security Department officials to largely be blamed, he and other top law enforcement officials understood that “zero tolerance” meant that migrant families would be separated and wanted that to happen because they believed it would deter future illegal immigration, Mr. Horowitz wrote.



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wsurfer



Joined: 17 Aug 2000
Posts: 1418

PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrgybe wrote:
coboardhead wrote:
You have applied a judgement of Mr. Biden and Ms. Harris based on YOUR interpretation of Christianity.

No I haven't. I have applied Biden's own publicly stated beliefs against his actions. How many times do I have to say it? He believes abortion takes a human life, yet he actively encourages the taking of that life. No one can wear two hats on this matter. If Biden, or other Catholic politicians, struggle with "imposing" their beliefs on others, then they should remove themselves from any position which presents that conflict, or distance themselves from the Catholic Church. To do otherwise in utterly hypocritical.

coboardhead wrote:
The teachings of Christ are not compatible with accumulation of great wealth.
Where did you get that from? Please don't embarrass yourself with the "eye of the needle".


coboardhead wrote:
....how can you criticize Biden for his reconciliation of supporting choice?

Explain to me the rationale that can be used to support taking a human life simply because that life is an inconvenience?


That sounds like a challenge to the death penalty if you asked me!
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 16655
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Omg—Pence had the temerity to claim that Trump has paid tens of millions in taxes!
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 8705
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a little tidbit that may be pertinent to this discussion.. The Regeneron cocktail that is being credited for Trump's rapid recovery, and is being considered for emergency use authorization is based on fetal tissue from an abortion.
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mrgybe



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 5071

PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

coboardhead wrote:
You define human life at a different point than I do. So, we cannot have the argument over the rationale behind supporting choice.

For the last time..........I am not talking about your definition of human life, or my definition. I am talking about Joe Biden's definition. He has clearly stated that he believes human life commences at conception. So, given that belief, I ask again.......can you give me a rationale which would enable Biden, or any person of principle, to actively encourage the taking of that human life? Thank you.
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real-human



Joined: 02 Jul 2011
Posts: 12926
Location: on earth

PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrgybe wrote:
coboardhead wrote:
You define human life at a different point than I do. So, we cannot have the argument over the rationale behind supporting choice.

For the last time..........I am not talking about your definition of human life, or my definition. I am talking about Joe Biden's definition. He has clearly stated that he believes human life commences at conception. So, given that belief, I ask again.......can you give me a rationale which would enable Biden, or any person of principle, to actively encourage the taking of that human life? Thank you.



But Biden says he is not pushing his religion beliefs on others as the government getting into and deciding what you can do with your life and body on this subject. Where you are telling us that the government does have the right to decide.

again by your definition which I say you have the right to make, you are a serial killer and by your definition you should be serving how many life sentences, well because you and your kind want the death penalty you should be put to death by your way. I have no problem with the death penalty on those who believe in it too.

_________________
when good people stay silent the right wing are the only ones heard.
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vientomas



Joined: 25 Apr 2000
Posts: 2102

PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrgybe wrote:
can you give me a rationale which would enable Biden, or any person of principle, to actively encourage the taking of that human life? Thank you.


Can you give me a quote from anyone who actively encourages the taking of human life, other than death penalty advocates?

If religious beliefs interfere with an ability to govern under the law and for the interests of all people, not only people who share those religious beliefs, then perhaps government office is not for those who hold such religious beliefs. Governance in the US is a secular activity. Otherwise, we are nothing more than a Taliban like state wherein religion forms policy. I for one have no desire to live in such an environment.


Last edited by vientomas on Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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