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dvCali
Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 1314
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 Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:32 am Post subject: |
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| jpf18 wrote: | | dvCali wrote: | | I have never seen any data that show an increase of violent crime perpetrated by "homeless people". The number of "homeless" has increased |
I'm going to have to call you out on this. This is a bogus argument. This situation is a perfect illustration: If Riptide felt threatened enough to never want to return to Crissy in order to avoid becoming part of a crime statistic, hey dvCarli, you just gotten your data tilted your direction. And this has been going on all over town. When people like Joe Goldmark feel compelled to come out and threaten to sue the city over the situation in his neighborhood (Upper Haight), you should know there is a problem that data isn't going to reflect. |
jpf18 individual experiences have been used to tilt public opinion for decades. Remember Willie Horton? used by H.W.Bush to sink Dukakis's 14 points lead in the 1988 presidential election? It was one case, in the state, Massachusett, that had the lowest homicide rate in the U.S.A. Nonetheless it worked like magic with a not so subtle message: black people were coming for you.
The problem with this kind of arguments is that they make it impossible to differentiate between the personal experience, that deserves all possible sympathy, and the extent of the general problem that they are supposed to represent.
Making general conclusions based on individual experiences is a fundamental human behavior, but unfortunately it is one unavoidably leads to wrong conclusions, and it is almost always colored by personal biases.
So, I stick with my commentary: (1) to refer to "homeless people" is meaningless, and (2) to figure the extent of any social problem we do need the numbers, not individual experiences. Homeless people are not coming for you. |
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jpf18
Joined: 13 Aug 2000
Posts: 347
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:49 am Post subject: |
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| dvCali wrote: | | individual experiences |
There are a few too many of those recently, to put it mildly. You can go from the mom who tip-toes her kid to school down Leavenworth in the morning to Gavin Newson who moved to Marin after his kids stumbled over a couple dudes smoking meth on the doorsteps of his Victorian. It's ridiculous to want to argue away Riptide's and all the other encounters that we, friends and family have had over the years as if it's just a collection of individual experiences (that don't matter, because, data). |
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rigatoni
Joined: 25 Feb 1999
Posts: 498
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| Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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jpf18: It boggles my mind that there are still people in this city who are turning a blind eye to what is going on around us. I don't think it matters whether you are liberal or conservative to want to live in a safe community. Perpetuating the same failed approaches that got us here or doubling down with more money is not going to help solve things.
dvCali-It is interesting that you removed the offensive dig from your first comment but then felt the need to call me "badly informed" in your second post.
You do not know me personally nor my history/involvement in the Crissy Field wind community over the last 20+ years.
I am happy to engage in discussions with people about any subject provided they are respectful of different opinions and not insulting. We have a real problem in this country where people from both left and right feel the need to engage in personal attacks and nastiness to get their point across. From my perspective, as soon as one does this, they have lost any credibility whatsoever. |
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wsurfer
Joined: 17 Aug 2000
Posts: 1635
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| Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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| rigatoni wrote: | jpf18: It boggles my mind that there are still people in this city who are turning a blind eye to what is going on around us. I don't think it matters whether you are liberal or conservative to want to live in a safe community. Perpetuating the same failed approaches that got us here or doubling down with more money is not going to help solve things.
dvCali-It is interesting that you removed the offensive dig from your first comment but then felt the need to call me "badly informed" in your second post.
You do not know me personally nor my history/involvement in the Crissy Field wind community over the last 20+ years.
I am happy to engage in discussions with people about any subject provided they are respectful of different opinions and not insulting. We have a real problem in this country where people from both left and right feel the need to engage in personal attacks and nastiness to get their point across. From my perspective, as soon as one does this, they have lost any credibility whatsoever. |
Rigatoni...apparently your mind has turned into spaghetti!!!
Many mentally ill, violent, drug using individuals are also homeless and confront law abiding citizens all the time.
My first exposure was traveling through SF and being at Golden Gate Park in 1981 and having my car broken in to. I almost caught the perpetrators and certainly chased them for a good while, geting my suitcase back with most of my belongings.
Homelessness is another problem altogether that we face as a nation and is only getting worse with the divide between rich and poor getting greater all the time. Covid unemployment is not helping.
It's important to recognize the difference and somehow not lump it together as one problem.
We used to institutionalize the mentally ill, drug addicted, violent outcasts in our society in the 1960's but have since left it to families, community outreach in large cities and others to try to cope with their problems.
Unfortunately is an abysmal attempt at social recognition of this slice of society.
Solve it and your parking lot problems go away.
Vilify it and nothing changes.
Capiche? |
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J64TWB
Joined: 24 Dec 2013
Posts: 1685
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| Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:48 am Post subject: |
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| Could some of this be covid related? In Chicago a bridge I travel under previously would have 2 or 3 homeless sheltering, now it has ballooned to about 15 or 20. |
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techno900
Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 4161
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| Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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Take a look at:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/727847/homelessness-rate-in-the-us-by-state/
One has to wonder what the driving force(s) are that moves folks to homelessness. Actually, the forces are obvious, but why the great differences between the states? I will have to do more reading. Why is DC on top and so far ahead of the rest of the country, plus the average income in DC is the best in the country? |
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real-human
Joined: 02 Jul 2011
Posts: 14874
Location: on earth
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| Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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Do not expect the police to help much from now to the election. The have an axe to grind. They have a vested interest in making things worse everywhere.. and protect their KKK, proud boy, hi fiving gun toting McVeigh want a bees.
They know that this is the right wings major polling advantage chance of securing a win for the only president ever sued for being a pedophile and serial sexual violator.
Why do you think the attorney general whos law firm represented Epstein started conversations to arrest a Mayor for allowing people to protest in sanctioned areas. (Again there is no responsible reason any law firm or lawyer would represent americas child rapist with more child rapes in the history of our nation. you let the court appoint (force) a poor new grad to defend him, again Epstein was hired by the attorney generals father to teach with no degree to add)
As we know enforcement officers in all agencies are predominately ultra or right wing in nature, did they start that way or did their horrible experiences they have to deal with on a daily basis make them this way? Just as I can agree most artists, musicians, intellectuals, Hollywood (exception apprentice P grabbers) are liberal.
You could not pay me enough to be a police officer or prison guard, those are all jobs that see the worst in humanity. It would have to affect your mental well being.
Out of curiosity what is the present stat on percentage of Vets that are homeless?
_________________
when good people stay silent the right wing are the only ones heard. |
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jp5
Joined: 19 May 1998
Posts: 3394
Location: OnUr6
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| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 10:43 am Post subject: |
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| welcome to liberal utopia. |
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real-human
Joined: 02 Jul 2011
Posts: 14874
Location: on earth
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| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 10:54 am Post subject: |
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| jpbassman wrote: | | welcome to liberal utopia. |
ya you want ray guns used on protesters , you want to be like russia and china on voting and demonstrations and who can voice their opinion. got ya.
again by your definition you are a serial child killer and your support a serial sexual abuser and child rapist... go sterilize yourself with a heat ray gun up your arse you pediophile lover supporter..
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when good people stay silent the right wing are the only ones heard. |
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jpf18
Joined: 13 Aug 2000
Posts: 347
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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| jpf18 wrote: | | dvCali wrote: | | individual experiences |
There are a few too many of those recently |
Here's more from last weekend. Mob attacking a couple ppl in the Upper Haight. It's unclear if anybody is part of the encampment scene, but it is clear the squalid conditions around enable behavior like this. Because, why not.
https://sfist.com/2020/10/06/brawl-breaks-out-in-the-middle-of-haight-street/ |
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