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Light Wind Option for joethewindsufa
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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 2769

PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The wind was listed as 7 to 13 knts. It did not say if that was averages or the general wind but looking at the pictures of the water it looked like they were sailing in winds 7 to 13 knts with an average somewhere in the middle. The riders appeared to be around 170-180 lbs. They chose sail sizes that they felt were typically used for each board in recreational sailing. Why did they feel those were the most used sail I can only speculate as the article did not go into details on that decision?

A sails performance for me is a bell curve based on wind speed, board type, board volume & sailor ability. As sails get larger they catch more wind but the sails also get heavier & the heavier sails have to be held up in transitions. You sail at a spot that has a large body of water. The place where the test was taken was a small lake, maybe a quarter mile across. I have three similar lakes near me that are all between 2 to 6 hundred meters across. On small lakes with many transitions holding up monster sails becomes a hassle. At 165 lbs. the biggest sail I use on a regular basis on small lakes is 7.5 meters. On a larger lake like Folsom that is 3 to 7 miles across then using a bigger sail makes sense.

Coachg
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NOVAAN



Joined: 28 Sep 1994
Posts: 1222

PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I sort of like how he shows a crash once in awhile
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dvCali



Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 1060

PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Light Wind Option for joethewindsufa Reply with quote

wsatl wrote:
coachg wrote:

For performance foil they used the Slingshot Wizard 125 plus Slingshot Ghost Whisper 101
Ideal Sail Range: 5.5-7.5
Passive Planing: 11 Knts
Active Pump: 9 knts
Pro: Early Lift, fast in little wind, no large sails needed
Con: None

Coachg


Good list but one very big quibble. They chose this for the "performance" foil? Did they chose it because SS bought ad space? It's good kit to be sure but if you wanted to get off the water early with good freeride kit, there are a ton of other options out there that will get off the water sooner, including the AFS 85/95 and Loke LK1 with 1100/1200 wings or even the Starboard Al Freeride. Getting a 125 off the water for passive sailing is a lot more difficult for the avg guy than the plethora of choices 135 and above.

This is an idea of what the Exocet RF81/Loke LK1 does under an 85kg rider:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OMl37881HA

I"m 70 kg, ride a 1000cm freerace wing with a 7.7 and those numbers are, to put it kindly, "off". Very Happy


It is a bit strange to use a Ghost Whisper, and hopefully they mention that the was actually a Moses foil. It is now obsolete because Moses has a new Race/Freerace https://store.moseshydrofoil.com/products/kit-vento-105.

Anyway, as expected it looks like Freerace/Performace foils (of which there are plenty) are the new kings of light air performance. The revolution has happened Shocked
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gregnw44



Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 775
Location: Seattle, Wa

PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coachg wrote:
The wind was listed as 7 to 13 knts. It did not say if that was averages or the general wind but looking at the pictures of the water it looked like they were sailing in winds 7 to 13 knts with an average somewhere in the middle. The riders appeared to be around 170-180 lbs. They chose sail sizes that they felt were typically used for each board in recreational sailing. Why did they feel those were the most used sail I can only speculate as the article did not go into details on that decision?

A sails performance for me is a bell curve based on wind speed, board type, board volume & sailor ability. As sails get larger they catch more wind but the sails also get heavier & the heavier sails have to be held up in transitions. You sail at a spot that has a large body of water. The place where the test was taken was a small lake, maybe a quarter mile across. I have three similar lakes near me that are all between 2 to 6 hundred meters across. On small lakes with many transitions holding up monster sails becomes a hassle. At 165 lbs. the biggest sail I use on a regular basis on small lakes is 7.5 meters. On a larger lake like Folsom that is 3 to 7 miles across then using a bigger sail makes sense.

Coachg


Regarding paragraph 1 - Thanks for the info... and the translation, interesting stuff. I'm just asking open-ended questions / discussion stuff. I know you didn't write the article... appreciate your input.
Yeah 7-13 knot wind... I'd love to get a fair amount of wind in that average range... lots of boards and foils can be fun Smile But most average sailors in Seattle would use bigger sails than they suggest, and all those boards (and foils) work well with bigger sails than those they listed.
But here's another picky, open-ended question... no answer required... just chatting. If they did most their "testing" in 7-13 knot wind... I wonder why they gave wind ranges of many of these kits, from the low single digits to the low 20 knot range? I would guess the answer is - they're experts with lots of experience, and so they "just know" these kits would work well within that range. BTW I agree with their wind ranges for the most part (I just think their sail sizes are too limiting).

Regarding paragraph 2 - I totally agree about the bell curve part. But I'd add that there are BIG sails that are not heavy compared to free-ride 2000's sails. I'm talking about many 90's big race sails... and new raceboard sails... and now, big foil sails. The are many sails (with 2 or 3 cams) in the 9 to 10.5m size that don't weigh much more than a 7.5m free-race sail with 2 or 3 cams from 2012. I weigh them side by side on a digital scale, and find some are identical... and or, other big, light weight sails might weigh 1 - 2 lbs more, but have much more power. I think the added 1 or 2 lbs is totally worth MORE power in a big sail.
Regarding lake sailing - I sail 98% of the time in Lake Washington in Seattle, which is about 20 miles long and 2 miles wide. However it was two floating bridges which divide it's length into 3 sections between 4 and 6 miles each... and has a hilly island (about 5 miles x 1 mile) in the middle of the S part. All this is to say I almost always sail in a lake that has an actual area from 2 to 4 miles long by 1/2 to 2 miles wide. That being said, I'm like most windsurfers who don't sail more than 1/2 mile from their launch. From my experience windsurfing around the world, most of us sail out 1/4 mile at most, back and forth (many times, it's just a soccer field, out and back). Yes we all do "lots of tacks and jibes". Besides, "how else are we gonna get transition practice for "lightwind longboard races", where we do a bunch of 50 meter legs. The winners are great at tacks and jibes, and sailing up and down wind. And they go faster with a lightweight 10m sail than a 7.5m sail.

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Longboarding since '81
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atlas.wave55



Joined: 24 Aug 2016
Posts: 100

PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still don't think there's anything wrong with Aluminum, but if you got the cash and want the latest and greatest go for it. Slingshots new foil will supposedly be made with 12k carbon. Soon 3k will be a thing of the past.
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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 2769

PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure why you are getting so far off topic, but the article clearly stated recreational sailing & I also clearly stated recreational sailing. Racing, or practicing for races, is not recreational sailing.

Yes, modern 9 & 10 meter sails have gotten lighter, but news flash, so have the 7.5's. What is too big for recreational sailing is strictly a personal choice. You feel 10 meters is fine, I feel 7.5 is fine & someone else might think 6.5 is fine.

As far as distances people sail, your experience is obviously different as mine. Let's just say that I disagree with your observation that given open water windsurfers will turn around after only mile. Folsom Lake, Tahoe, S.F. Bay, Kailua Bay or Lake Garda in Italy I have seen sailors in large bodies of water sail much farther than 1/4 mile.

Coachg
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fanntom43



Joined: 14 Nov 2016
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:25 am    Post subject: Light wind options for joethewindsufa Reply with quote

Gregnw44,I'm curious what size fin you use on your Windsurfer LT with such big sails? Biggest sail I've used was a 6.5 with a 33 cm fin. I'm 180# and use a 9.0 on my Kona with the stock 46 cm. I'll often sail all day with the daggerboard retracted. Was told "don't need to use a big sail" on WS but you got me thinking!
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wsatl



Joined: 30 Sep 2014
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coachg wrote:
As far as distances people sail, your experience is obviously different as mine. Let's just say that I disagree with your observation that given open water windsurfers will turn around after only mile. Folsom Lake, Tahoe, S.F. Bay, Kailua Bay or Lake Garda in Italy I have seen sailors in large bodies of water sail much farther than 1/4 mile.

Coachg


First, thanks for posting the article. I hope it's understood the quibble is with the message, not the messenger! Very Happy

Like you, at a 1/4 mile, I'm just getting warmed up. Our normal BAF dog run is about 3/4 mile.

That's what I love about the foil is that - like in the old days of longboards - it's actually easy to go places - albeit, now at speed. We, not infrequently, will sail up to a different part of the lake a couple miles away to either see friends or see if the wind is a bit better.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 19249

PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What intrigues me about sailing longer distances from my launch is the extra adrenaline associated with it. Whether it's miles offshore from Kihei or the Oregon coast, or miles up or down the Columbia or Elephant Butte Reservoir, NM, the associated risk enhances the session. It also often pays off in better terrain, such as finding 6+ foot swell in New Mexico or on the Columbia, and in enhanced skills. Of course, it requires Plans A, B, and C and extra confidence in the wind, but it hasn't bitten me too badly -- YET -- even though it's all been on sinkers. Foils generally add to the possibilities for fun and skill development.
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 4590
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No thanks!
My buds sailing out to the N Faralones, 23 miles in 50 degree water and airs..... another launching N of Diamond Head to Molokai...I'll pass.
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