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vientomas



Joined: 25 Apr 2000
Posts: 835

PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GURGLETROUSERS wrote:
Malibu - Thank you for posting that article on Germany. There is a very apt cartoon in one of our Sunday papers today, labelled 'Britain Then and Now.' (I would post it but I don't know how.)

A bemedalled and frail old D Day veteran and his wife are hobbling along the pavement of an inner city (London I expect) with looks of sadness and sheer bewilderment on their faces as what now passes for normal life takes place, all around them. (Drug dealers and junkies, hooded thugs on motor bikes assaulting walkers and snatching women's handbags and men's wallets, stabbings, adverts for T.V. live sex shows, a tatooed yob on a bike belting along the pavement snarling at them to get out of his way, and other things.)

The parallels with that opinion piece are clear, so I ask again, who do we vote for to halt the present inexorable decline.


Who are "we"? I have no idea what pool of candidates you can draw from to vote for relative to your place of residence. Therefore, as far as naming individuals is concerned, I am uable to answer your question.
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GURGLETROUSERS



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 2321

PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By 'we' I mean the liberal Western countries, who, in the name of being non-judgemental are turning a blind eye to the enforcement of current laws.

By asking who do 'we' (in any liberal Western country) vote for, I mean a political party which would enforce our current laws by police arrests of those who flout them, and meaningful sentencing, especially with regard to the now widespread use of prohibited drugs, by all levels of society. (Cannabis and cocaine in particular which even many politicians have been in the habit of using, so is it any wonder the police don't enforce the law as they should.)

I believe we in the West are in danger of passing a critical point after which the ratchet effect will lead to decriminalising of all drugs, the usual argument being that we have lost the battle anyway, so legalise them and make them freely available, and you solve the crime associated with supply.

Am I really in a minority nowadays in not wishing to live in a drug addled society, with the serious consequences such a state of affairs could lead to?
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MalibuGuru



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 8516

PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vientomas wrote:
GURGLETROUSERS wrote:
Malibu - Thank you for posting that article on Germany. There is a very apt cartoon in one of our Sunday papers today, labelled 'Britain Then and Now.' (I would post it but I don't know how.)

A bemedalled and frail old D Day veteran and his wife are hobbling along the pavement of an inner city (London I expect) with looks of sadness and sheer bewilderment on their faces as what now passes for normal life takes place, all around them. (Drug dealers and junkies, hooded thugs on motor bikes assaulting walkers and snatching women's handbags and men's wallets, stabbings, adverts for T.V. live sex shows, a tatooed yob on a bike belting along the pavement snarling at them to get out of his way, and other things.)

The parallels with that opinion piece are clear, so I ask again, who do we vote for to halt the present inexorable decline.


Who are "we"? I have no idea what pool of candidates you can draw from to vote for relative to your place of residence. Therefore, as far as naming individuals is concerned, I am uable to answer your question.


Nigel Farage or Lapen in France. We have Trump and he's exposing the corruption in the bureaucratic state.

We are fortunate that our country borders Mexico and Canada. Mexicans (my wife) are Christian, family oriented people. The Mexican gangs are the most violent in the world. But we are locking them up, or deporting them. Of course it's a constant battle with liberals who don't mind that 80,000 Americans die of drug overdose each year. They don't mind that our schools are cesspools. They don't care about the suffering of migrants at the hands of the cartels.

I only hope that liberals will get what's coming to them in 2020.
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vientomas



Joined: 25 Apr 2000
Posts: 835

PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GURGLETROUSERS wrote:
By 'we' I mean the liberal Western countries, who, in the name of being non-judgemental are turning a blind eye to the enforcement of current laws.

By asking who do 'we' (in any liberal Western country) vote for, I mean a political party which would enforce our current laws by police arrests of those who flout them, and meaningful sentencing, especially with regard to the now widespread use of prohibited drugs, by all levels of society. (Cannabis and cocaine in particular which even many politicians have been in the habit of using, so is it any wonder the police don't enforce the law as they should.)

I believe we in the West are in danger of passing a critical point after which the ratchet effect will lead to decriminalising of all drugs, the usual argument being that we have lost the battle anyway, so legalise them and make them freely available, and you solve the crime associated with supply.

Am I really in a minority nowadays in not wishing to live in a drug addled society, with the serious consequences such a state of affairs could lead to?


The premise of your question presupposes that one or more persons elected into office (who thereby become part of the government), can effectuate the change you seek. Or more to the point, the change you want to stop from happening. Respectfully, I reject the premises of your question, as would any true Republican in the US. The government should not be the tool to effectuate a reversal in the decline of society which you describe. It is up to the individual, the parent, the sibling, or the partner to teach proper values to the children. It is not the role of the government. Governments make laws, they do not, and should not, impose morality.

The decriminalization of all drugs will not come to pass. Pot is legal in many States now and there are a plethora of studies documenting the effect of de-criminalization. It's not armageddon. Alcohol creates much greater problems. Are you opposed to the sale of alcohol too?
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GURGLETROUSERS



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 2321

PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I accept that politicians are not a tool to dictate standards to society, and that parents should teach proper values to their children, but that, in many cases, is no longer happening. (Retired teacher - seen the results far too often.) But politicians do have a duty to lead by example. When they themselves break the law ( many should be serving prison sentences for admitted cocaine abuse) they immediately undermine the authority of those parents who do try to set standards. Youth clearly spots hypocrisy!

I ask questions because I don't have an answer, but I know that youth in particular (and many adults) do require leadership and a clear set of rules even though they rebel and protest otherwise. If society and politicians give mixed messages they will swing towards those who seemingly speak with purpose. Is not the rise of religious fundamentalism, and right wing fundamentalism on the other hand, sweeping in many disillusioned Westerners?

As for alcohol, I don't drink but what has existed for thousands of years is way past stopping. In that respect (intoxication) the law does intercede, especially with regard to drunk driving, and very rightly so!
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 12852
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trump is trying to roll back safety standards even more.

Quote:
A report from the U.S. Chemical Safety and Hazard Investigation Board found that the failure of ineffective blowout controls played a role in causing the Jan. 22, 2018, explosion and fire in Pittsburg County, Okla., that resulted in five deaths at a natural gas well run by Houston-based Patterson-UTI Energy Inc. - the deadliest drilling accident since 2010, when 11 people died from the Deepwater Horizon's explosion. The board also found problems with the oil well's safety management system and the training of the driller. (The Associated Press )
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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 5856
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mac wrote:
Trump is trying to roll back safety standards even more.

Quote:
A report from the U.S. Chemical Safety and Hazard Investigation Board found that the failure of ineffective blowout controls played a role in causing the Jan. 22, 2018, explosion and fire in Pittsburg County, Okla., that resulted in five deaths at a natural gas well run by Houston-based Patterson-UTI Energy Inc. - the deadliest drilling accident since 2010, when 11 people died from the Deepwater Horizon's explosion. The board also found problems with the oil well's safety management system and the training of the driller. (The Associated Press )
To claim that, you'd also have to blame Obama for the Deepwater Horizon blowout, 11 deaths compared to 5 deaths, are you willing to do that as well?
Also "ineffective blowout controls", are those policy controls, or are they mechanical? Do you even know?
Simple questions that anyone with half a brain would want to know before jumping to conclusions,,,,,,,,,,,, unless they're desperate.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 12852
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nw30 wrote:
mac wrote:
Trump is trying to roll back safety standards even more.

Quote:
A report from the U.S. Chemical Safety and Hazard Investigation Board found that the failure of ineffective blowout controls played a role in causing the Jan. 22, 2018, explosion and fire in Pittsburg County, Okla., that resulted in five deaths at a natural gas well run by Houston-based Patterson-UTI Energy Inc. - the deadliest drilling accident since 2010, when 11 people died from the Deepwater Horizon's explosion. The board also found problems with the oil well's safety management system and the training of the driller. (The Associated Press )
To claim that, you'd also have to blame Obama for the Deepwater Horizon blowout, 11 deaths compared to 5 deaths, are you willing to do that as well?
Also "ineffective blowout controls", are those policy controls, or are they mechanical? Do you even know?
Simple questions that anyone with half a brain would want to know before jumping to conclusions,,,,,,,,,,,, unless they're desperate.


NSW—you are either dumber than a rock, or you never read the news.

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/448274-trump-says-he-would-listen-if-foreigners-offered-dirt-on-political

As for Deepwater Horizon—their development was approved by the Bush administration—with Cheney weakening safety standards. Dumb you are.
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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 5856
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nope, you don't know, no surprise. So you change the subject.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 12852
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nw30 wrote:
Nope, you don't know, no surprise. So you change the subject.


That wasn’t the right link—but this is. You’re still dumb.

https://time.com/5582591/trump-offshore-drilling-deepwater-horizon/

This is what I thought I was posting.

https://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/441837-trump-administration-eases-landmark-offshore-drilling-safety-rules


Last edited by mac on Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:34 am; edited 1 time in total
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