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Let's Talk Cammed Sails
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mamero



Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Posts: 353
Location: Vancouver, Canada

PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regarding sail rotation in cammed sails. Is there a bit of a technique regarding HOW you rotate the sail? I spoke with the person who sold me the sail/mast combo. He said he uses much more back had when pulling the boom to rotate the sail and that technique might have something to do with why I'm having an issue with sail rotation. There could be something to this considering the circumstances. I'm not used to how a cammed sail transitions or how you correctly and efficiently induce a transition for a cammed sail.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 18693

PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jerk the crap out of it, and if necessary kick the foot panel. That's just one of many reasons I have no use for them.

Not even counting the time I had to dive 15-20 feet into the Columbia -- in a full suit and flotation armor -- to catch a camber that had popped out and was sinking.
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grantmac017



Joined: 04 Aug 2016
Posts: 561

PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Same technique as effective pumping, which is two hands close together. Just fanning the back hand won't do anything. Look at the fast slalom guys.
In absolutely no wind it might need a knee, but if your planing just a pump will do.
If ease of use is more important than ultimate speed remove some cams.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 18693

PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

grantmac017 wrote:
Just fanning the back hand won't do anything.

Many of us strongly disagree. As past treads have stated, it clearly helps if one is already close to planing. It works too well, too often to be merely the result of a random puff of extra wind. If "the slalom guys" don't use it, it may be because they gotta plane NOW or lose the race; the rest of us usually prefer to save that energy for sailing and/or are less willing to work that hard 3 or 4 hours into a session. Sure, pumping provides more boost, but why use a sledge hammer where a tack hammer would work?
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cgoudie1



Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 2160
Location: Killer Sturgeon Cove

PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not attempting to put words in anyone's mouth, I think what grantmac017
was saying is that fanning won't pop your cams through, not that it doesn't work.

.01

-Craig

isobars wrote:
grantmac017 wrote:
Just fanning the back hand won't do anything.

Many of us strongly disagree. As past treads have stated, it clearly helps if one is already close to planing. It works too well, too often to be merely the result of a random puff of extra wind. If "the slalom guys" don't use it, it may be because they gotta plane NOW or lose the race; the rest of us usually prefer to save that energy for sailing and/or are less willing to work that hard 3 or 4 hours into a session. Sure, pumping provides more boost, but why use a sledge hammer where a tack hammer would work?
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grantmac017



Joined: 04 Aug 2016
Posts: 561

PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
grantmac017 wrote:
Just fanning the back hand won't do anything.

Many of us strongly disagree. As past treads have stated, it clearly helps if one is already close to planing. It works too well, too often to be merely the result of a random puff of extra wind. If "the slalom guys" don't use it, it may be because they gotta plane NOW or lose the race; the rest of us usually prefer to save that energy for sailing and/or are less willing to work that hard 3 or 4 hours into a session. Sure, pumping provides more boost, but why use a sledge hammer where a tack hammer would work?


I fan with the best of them when sliding my 95L wave board down a rolling outside swell or trying to catch a breaking wave underpowered. I don't think it actually generates speed but it does unweight the tail and perhaps get the fin flying if just barely not planing.

But on flat water with big kit fanning is not getting the job done and is more tiring than a few effective pumps.
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mamero



Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Posts: 353
Location: Vancouver, Canada

PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be clear, I am asking/suggesting there might be more technique in the pumping action to rotate a cammed sail (flip the battens from one tack to the other) than a camless sail. Pumping technique to get and stay on plane is another topic.

Last edited by mamero on Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:08 am; edited 1 time in total
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grantmac017



Joined: 04 Aug 2016
Posts: 561

PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Same technique, especially body and rig position.

However I think you are shimmed too tight for the DH setting.
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joethewindsufa



Joined: 10 Oct 2010
Posts: 1014
Location: Montréal

PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

with mast and sail from same manufacturer - Maui Sails,
I have never had shims at all
learned over time to max downhaul and adjust power with outhaul
broke battens on my freerace MS-2 playing with downhaul
with some McLube and minor pumping my TR-4 10.0 and TR-6 8.4 cambers flip fine
let me see if i can find a video ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOPP5pa4TAc
at about the 3:00 minute mark I go to the other side with NO issues
besides my terrible tack that is Smile
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cgoudie1



Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 2160
Location: Killer Sturgeon Cove

PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, there's a kind of a snap (quick jerk) at the end of your sail transition where you
yank the sail toward you (like a pump) to get the danged cams to rotate.
Both arms, but more with the back arm, just like a good technique full pump.

Get thee behind me, cams.

-Craig

mamero wrote:
To be clear, I am asking/suggesting there might be more technique in the pumping action to rotate a cammed sail (flip the battens from one tack to the other) than a camless sail. Pumping technique to get and stay on plane is another topic.
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