myiW Current Conditions and Forecasts Community Forums Buy and Sell Services
 
Hi guest · myAccount · Log in
 SearchSearch   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   RegisterRegister 
Lessons learned foiling on a 77.5 cm wide board

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    iWindsurf Community Forum Index -> Windsurfing Discussion
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
brynkaufman2



Joined: 10 Sep 2002
Posts: 377
Location: Kailua Oahu

PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:21 am    Post subject: Lessons learned foiling on a 77.5 cm wide board Reply with quote

I am having some fantastic sessions on the Naish Hover 142 and Naish Thrust Windsurf foil.

To sum it up I feel like I am surfing a short board because it is so easy to turn, but I am surfing it on swells and chop that even the longest SUP board would not catch. It is like surfing a short board on 1,000+ yard rides.

However, I have learned some things that I thought might help others so I am posting them.

One is do not use a large wide boom. You can't get the right angle on the boom as the straps are set close to the sail, and it feels like someone put a 25 lb. weight near the front of the board as it is that much harder to take off with the big heavy boom, even though my big boom is carbon.

My preferred boom, and the largest I will use now, is the Chinook RDG Carbon.

https://chinooksailing.com/collections/rdg-carbon-booms-1/products/rdg-carbon-boom-150-200cm-24-5mm-new

I am also questioning if I will ever use a 7.0 sail again. It seems I get better performance from my 6.0 in the light winds. While the 7.0 works on the above boom, the 6.0 feels so much lighter, and that again makes the take off much easier. Less weight up front means taking off easier.

Once up the 6.0 feels so much lighter and easier to make turns with vs. the 7.0.

I found using 2 harness lines to be much better than 1. For my long ones I am using the Chinook Race Harness Lines. They are nice because they are really long and fairly easy to adjust.

https://chinooksailing.com/collections/harness-lines/products/race-harness-lines

I found pumping the sail in the harness with my body weight is much easier than with my arms and body only. The long lines allow you to reach forward to grab the wind, which as the wind goes lighter is especially important.

I noticed as soon as I attempt to pump the sail with my arms and not my body weight I lose momentum, so using my body weight for that pumping is critical for me.

However, as soon as I am flying, I prefer a much shorter harness line. This allows me to go upwind with much less effort, and just feels more connected to the boom and sail. It feels like I can capture more of the wind without using my arms on the shorter lines.

So I use the long one to get flying, and immediately switch to the short one.

Once flying in the short lines if you need more than 1 finger on the boom something is out of adjustment. Not that you have to ride all the time with 1 finger, but it is a great way to test your harness line position to make sure you are holding the sail with your body weight and not your arms.

Using my body weight has extended my sessions from 1 hour to 3 hours. I found I needed the Dakine Waterman Surf Backpack for 3 hour sessions. Keeping hydrated prevents fatigue, and I don't even notice this backpack when riding.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HTA2LQK/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I ride with the front strap as close to the sail as possible. This allows me to easily pump the sail while in the front strap and in the harness lines.

The back strap I found the right position by taking them off and seeing where my foot felt best. After one session with them off, I noticed my foot always going to the same location, and that is where I put the back strap.

I had to experiment for foil position. I found having my foot about half in front of the foil mast works well for me. It provides the right lift off along with the right stability. While having my foot further back provides even earlier lift off, it also starts to make the board more twitchy.

My weight is 160 lbs., so I am sure everyone will have to adjust according to their weight and control preference.

Putting your rear foot more forward stabilizes the board to the max, but it does hinder early lift off.

I even noticed a slight difference moving my back foot within the rear strap. If I press it to the back of the strap I take off really easy, press it to the front and my control is slightly easier.

_________________
Bryn Kaufman
Wind Foiling Kailua Bay since June 2017
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
akrausz



Joined: 19 Sep 2008
Posts: 106
Location: Sarasota, FL

PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the taking the time to post that.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
grantmac017



Joined: 04 Aug 2016
Posts: 557

PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can you explain the footstrap to boom to sail relationship a little more? I think I understand but want to make sure.
Optimization around smaller sails is an area that foiling is just now starting to explore and I'm excited to see where it goes.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
brynkaufman2



Joined: 10 Sep 2002
Posts: 377
Location: Kailua Oahu

PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is interesting about smaller sails is I am finding there is very little difference between a 7, 6, and 5.2 sail as long as the boom and mast stay the same.

The reason for this I believe is because while you do add some extra power from the larger sail, you also add some weight, and that takes away part of the advantage of the larger sail.

I would estimate my 5.2 takes off in 16 mph gusts, my 6.0 might go to 15 mph, and my 7.0 might be 14 mph. So for me if it is gusting 16 mph or higher the 5.2 is a good choice.

I wanted the straps close to the boom so it would be comfortable to pump while hooked into the harness line and while in the foot straps. If the straps are too far back or too far out board it becomes difficult. My height is 5'11", so for those that are taller they might prefer a different setting.

I have a Ezzy Hydra 4.0 on order. David says the sail can be used in place of a 6.5 sail. If that is the case it might end up being my most used sail. I think I can get the power equal to my 5.2, but the mast goes from 400 to 340 and even the boom has to be a size smaller. This reduction in weight from the small mast and boom while still having a good size foot to the sail for power and stability is probably why such a small Hydra sail can be used.

I will post an update on the Hydra once I have a chance to test it out.

https://www.ezzy.com/sails/2018-sails/ezzy-hydra/

_________________
Bryn Kaufman
Wind Foiling Kailua Bay since June 2017
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
grantmac017



Joined: 04 Aug 2016
Posts: 557

PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I mean are your straps more forward or more inward?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
brynkaufman2



Joined: 10 Sep 2002
Posts: 377
Location: Kailua Oahu

PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Both front and back straps are as far forward as possible. There is no inward / outward option on this board as it is pretty narrow in back.
_________________
Bryn Kaufman
Wind Foiling Kailua Bay since June 2017
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
grantmac017



Joined: 04 Aug 2016
Posts: 557

PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm doing the same experiment with my 74cm width board I converted to foil box. So far I haven't had any long flights with the straps inboard and forward to compare, but the ones I've had showed significant maneuverability improvement at the expense of early lift off. I move the mast base rearward with larger sails in order to keep the increased weight from pushing the nose down.

I haven't tried playing with boom width but that also makes sense. I prefer fairly long lines and a lower boom all the time.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
brynkaufman2



Joined: 10 Sep 2002
Posts: 377
Location: Kailua Oahu

PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is interesting because for me the straps forward brought stability but not maneuverability in terms of easier turning.

For me the two are opposites. The more stable it is, the less easy it is to turn. The easier it is to turn, the less stable it became.

I underestimated the advantages of lighter smaller sales on a small board. I always had that windsurfing mentality when there is less wind rig a larger sail.

Now I am understanding that with a bigger sail comes more weight, and that makes a huge difference in early take off, even with the mast track all the way back which is where I always keep it.

I heard from a foiler on Facebook who has mastered the small sails that the his most frequently used sails are a 3.7 and 4.2. He never goes over 5.2.

I now know why because the larger sails get a really marginal improvement if any, and once flying the smaller sails are really nice.

I believe I am coming to the point where I will also never use over a 5.2.

I believe once I get the 4.0 Ezzy Hydra that will be my most used sail. If it delivers the pumping and planing ability of a 6 sail as David Ezzy states it does, it would then become the only sail I use.

_________________
Bryn Kaufman
Wind Foiling Kailua Bay since June 2017
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
grantmac017



Joined: 04 Aug 2016
Posts: 557

PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The board I'm using allows forward/in or back/out only since it started life as a "progression" board.
I think the maneuverability is coming from them being inboard since my feet are on a flat part of the deck so I can engage either my toes or heels to turn. I'm unsure if having them forward does anything but allow me to transfer weight forward, I'll need more time on it.

Definitely keeping more weight on my feet and out of the harness is a big component of both stability and maneuverability for me.

Without a doubt the size of sail for foiling is secondary to its design. I've converted am old Naish Koa by adding a single cam and it's far superior to modern RAF sails it's size because of the light weight and tight leech.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    iWindsurf Community Forum Index -> Windsurfing Discussion All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You can attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum

myiW | Weather | Community | Membership | Support | Log in
like us on facebook
© Copyright 1999-2007 WeatherFlow, Inc Contact Us Ad Marketplace

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group