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Lightest 4.2 sail
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flaherty



Joined: 01 May 1997
Posts: 388

PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always go for the lightest sails. I have all Naish sessions circa 2013 or 2014
they are extremely light sails. and I do notice the difference. Not to knock on Ezzy which are great sails, but do feel heavy to me. I'm 5'6" 140 lbs so that may be part of it. Carbon booms do make a difference to me , even in the small sails. Tuning does make a difference , as others have stated, my sails will feel heavy to me if not tuned correctly, usually meaning, not enough downhaul.
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 4627
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
Lofts cut sail panels within hundredths of an inch ... FAR closer tolerances than we can achieve by laying one sail over another ... and there's MUCH more to a sail's performance than square meters or aspect ratio. Just using one outhaul grommet vs the other changes the load distribution throughout the sail and thus its dynamic response to rider and wind on the water and in the air. An inch of DH makes a HUGE difference in a sail's behavior. I can DH my Featherlites with one hand, whereas it takes me both hands to DH a Sinewave correctly, and their luff curves are very different.

Consider the difference between Huckers tuned for Dale Cook vs Huckers tuned for the rest of us Earthbound hacks; his COE and leech tension are far higher than ours, boosting his altitude by tens of feet at the expense of requiring greater rider strength -- i.e., more hard work -- on the water.

If the guy who bought a 5.7 Featherlite based on its square meters had asked NW or any of its well-informed riders who have ridden all its sail models, he'd have known that the FL is intended to be run big and flat compared to its stablemates. In that sense, it's much like the innovative Neal Pryde race sails circa 1993 that came with instructions to rig at least a half-meter bigger than anything else for a given wind speed and rig it flat. It was gutless off the line, but seemed to have unlimited top end speed. The penalty was immense DH tension; most men lacked the sheer strength to DH it properly. Sailmakers have come a long ways since then, achieving a better range of bottom end power, top end speed, responsiveness to tuning variations, and user-friendliness.


As much as I enjoyed this and the other NW discussions you have brought up.
Neither you nor NW see fit to post the weights. The sentence on Huckers and Dale Cook , have what to do with the lightest 4.2 pray tell ?

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Last edited by U2U2U2 on Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 4627
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

flaherty wrote:
I always go for the lightest sails. I have all Naish sessions circa 2013 or 2014
they are extremely light sails. and I do notice the difference. Not to knock on Ezzy which are great sails, but do feel heavy to me. I'm 5'6" 140 lbs so that may be part of it. Carbon booms do make a difference to me , even in the small sails. Tuning does make a difference , as others have stated, my sails will feel heavy to me if not tuned correctly, usually meaning, not enough downhaul.


Flaherty, I know as a friend and sailing companion . He is on way smaller gear than most anyone, sail size close or more than a meter smaller, and he still passes me , and most. It has to do with he is efficient and very adapt at conditions, waves, chop, flat water. It also has to do with his light weight.

Naish Session 20143.23kg rigs on a 400 mast. 4.7m
Naish Force 2018 3.2kg rigs 400mast .4.7m

Ezzy Taka 4 2018 3.12kg rigs 370bottom 400 top 4.7m

FYI my Tri Sails 4.8m 2.35kg on a 370mast

I think you sailed the wrong Ezzys, and perhaps not rigged correctly.
I think that once accustomed to a certain feel, anything other than that doesnt feel as sweet on the water.
NAISH are a great product that have served me well, and they do post the weight of their sails.

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Last edited by U2U2U2 on Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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manuel



Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Posts: 743

PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

flaherty wrote:
[...]Tuning does make a difference , as others have stated, my sails will feel heavy to me if not tuned correctly, usually meaning, not enough downhaul.


Ezzy are so easy to tune, add downhaul until sail doesn't pull from high up. On my 5.0 I use medium downhaul at a minimum because gusts are generally above 20 knots no matter the wind. However on my 4.5 I can use any setting I want pretty much (except maybe for max because our lulls are super low no matter the wind!). So I try to tune the downhaul for enough support in lulls, medium height pull, and reactivity for fun.

Then I adjust outhaul until sail feels stable with a controlled sweet spot. This may be adjusted on the water if needed.

Overall, their shape and behavior does remain fairly similar only power, lift and speed change with tuning.

Not sure if this makes any sense at all Very Happy !!!!!

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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 18458

PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

U2U2U2 wrote:
1. Neither you nor NW see fit to post the weights.

2. The sentence on Huckers and Dale Cook , have what to do with the lightest 4.2 pray tell ?


1. I don't know the weights (my comparison was last year) and both NW and I know that a sail's mass/static weight is all but irrelevant. Everybody says Ezzys are heavy, but our magazine weighed many brands many years ago and found Ezzys to be on the light side.

Another example was the Multisail, with all those heavy zippers and its strong materials. Under sail, it felt very light simply because it was designed well.

2. It illustrates the effects of tuning on performance, including perceived weight. Dale tunes his for nosebleed altitudes, while the masses tune them to achieve more user-friendly handling in routine B&J mode. Splitting the difference compromises performance at both ends of the spectrum. I could tune my NWs for altitude, but prefer the handling benefits of greater DH and the resulting looser leech. My knee doesn't need any more 30 footers anyway.
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 4627
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OP , these are based on your most recent proposals 4.7 and 370mast.
Weights on some are unknown but could be significant.
Avanti FENIX 370/4.8=2.8kg
Hot Sails Maui KSSpider 370/4.7 = 2.8kg
Hot Sails Maui KS3 370/4.7= 2.9kg

The above are THE ONLY sails that fit both your requirements.
Ezzy Taka 4 370/400 4.7=3.1kg
S2 Maui Dragon 370/4.9 = unkn
Gaastra IQ 370/4.7= unkn
Vandal Riot 370/4.7=Unkn
Taking a 400 mast
Severne S1Pro 400/4.7 =2.5kg
Aerotech Charge 400/4.7 =2.72kg
NorthWave Sinewave 400/4.7=2.95kg
Naish Force IV 400/4.7 = 3.2kg

Quoted weights from manf sites or a phone call. Any dispute on weight is their fault. This includes the NW Sinewave.

Now you could debate until the cows come home which offers the best value per dollar, easy of purchase, custome service, stands behind the product.
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ss59



Joined: 10 Nov 2016
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From what you have said I am guessing you are an expert sailor.

Are you actually looking for the lightest (weight) sail or the lightest (feeling) sail. Again, from what you said it sounds like you are after a float and ride wave sail that depowers completely on the face. For that a three batten sail like the Simmer tricera, Goya Fringe pro or the 4 batten Severne S1 pro would all work.
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 4627
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ss59 wrote:
From what you have said I am guessing you are an expert sailor.

Are you actually looking for the lightest (weight) sail or the lightest (feeling) sail. Again, from what you said it sounds like you are after a float and ride wave sail that depowers completely on the face. For that a three batten sail like the Simmer tricera, Goya Fringe pro or the 4 batten Severne S1 pro would all work.


Simmer Tricvera 4.7 rigs 370, weight unknown
Goya Fridge 4.7 rigs 400 weight unknown .

If he was looking for the lightest feeling sail it would be based on opinion , not weight. If it was feel he might have added a little more verbiage to the OP.
But its been so much fun, and I di finmd out what a few of the lightest sails are in the market, BUT their can be only one.

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VinceSF



Joined: 05 Apr 2005
Posts: 232
Location: Marin County, CA

PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

U2U2U2 wrote:
Particular note a 4.1m Ezzy Taka 4.1 is 2.8kg. 3 batten .

So is the Mauisail Epic 4.3

I use mine with the 370 mast and a stubby extension and the smallest thinnest boom. Rig overall is very light and I am using it in ever lighter wind. My 4.7 is collecting dust.

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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 4627
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

VinceSF wrote:
U2U2U2 wrote:
Particular note a 4.1m Ezzy Taka 4.1 is 2.8kg. 3 batten .

So is the Mauisail Epic 4.3

I use mine with the 370 mast and a stubby extension and the smallest thinnest boom. Rig overall is very light and I am using it in ever lighter wind. My 4.7 is collecting dust.


Thanks the OP has Maui Sails something or other.
The Ezzy DOULD have said
Taka 4 4.7m 370/400 at 3.1kg

THe OP is looking for a 4.7 any-who

Actually the 4.1 m was correct in all respects ate the time , THE OP was then looking for a 4.2m

YOUR Maui Sails would have fut nicely then, but so long ago.

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Last edited by U2U2U2 on Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
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