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Step/flip vs. Flip/step vs. Flip/sail out switch
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PeconicPuffin



Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 1702

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

grantmac017 wrote:
Getting weight forward is definitely the problem, as is a late flip because the pressure doesn't leave the sail (because I'm stalling the board).

The issue is how I get it forward. If I come further forward with my back foot I tend to get the front stuck in the strap frequently. Pulling down on the back of the boom as I open the sail before the flip seems to help with board trim but if that's an essential part of the gybe then how can you flip the sail first?


This is useful information.

-If the pressure doesn't leave the sail during the deep downwind portion of the carve, you've already lost so much speed that you'll never plane through. You need more speed. You must keep the nose of the board down (via weight forward) as you carve through the turn.

-Regarding the front foot being stuck: That's either because you're purely bending forward at the waist (as opposed to bending at the knees, bringing your hips forward) or your foot is jammed too far into the strap, or a combo of both. For myself I need to loosen my front foot some before I begin the set up (4-5 seconds before initiating the carve).

-Pulling down on the back of the boom as you open the sail may seem like it helps, but you'll do better by pushing down with your front hand instead. This is an optional tweak to the flip...if you've got good speed and a firm carve it's not necessary, but a little downward pressure through the mast helps keep the nose down.

In any event you need to get your butt forward and over the front inside foot strap as you carve. Keep your head up. As you carve through "6" (dead downwind) the sail must go light. If it's not, you're not going fast enough, either because you lost speed during your set up and entry, or didn't have enough in the first place.

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cgoudie1



Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 2159
Location: Killer Sturgeon Cove

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What Michael said. You should actually be planing away out of the jibe
coasting without having to power up the sail. This allows time for the wind
to reattach to the sail for a smooth power-up. If you get it right, you lose
very little speed from one side of the jibe to the other. Somebody in this
thread mentioned that you should feel like you're about to get yanked on
initiation, my opinion is that if you feel like that you're entering the jibe without enough speed. The sail should have very little power just before
you toss it.

.02

-Craig
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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 2618

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try sailing parallel to the chop even if it means pointing slightly up wind. I think you will find it much easier to unhook, hang down & slide your foot across the board at speed if you are not going over multiple speed bumps.

Coachg
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ctuna



Joined: 27 Jun 1995
Posts: 816
Location: Santa Cruz Ca

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe Peter Hart mentions that you have to do tight jibes
in chop and swell. Since you have hills and troughs you have to
not end it climbing a hill on the other hand you don't want to initiate
it climbing a hill either.

You will loose speed fast sailing right into chop and ruin your knees to.
I agree with the parallel to chop comment.

Most places where I would be sailing directly into chop I would be sailing
upwnd into the chop pretty hard. Sailing parallel and taking the speed
is generally a better option.


Last edited by ctuna on Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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westender



Joined: 02 Aug 2007
Posts: 1091
Location: Portland / Gorge

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe this applies to the other topic but, Non planing gibe people need to think about carving the turn first and not worry about the planing out. Practice turning where you don't have a smooth comfortable spot and concentrate on getting the board turned around and not falling in. I used to do a lot of water skiing which I think helped with the carving and banking into the turn stuff.
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DanWeiss



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 2246
Location: Connecticut, USA

PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The key to bing in steep chop, "chopswell" or actual swell-behaving, wave-like things is to EXIT your jibe going downhill. This will keep the apparent wind forward and literally may bring your rig right to your hands after the flip depending on true wind angle relative to swell.

So, initiate your turn at the top of the swell and jam it. The swell will help keep your nose up and speed high. The board becomes stable and behaves like you have a ton of mast base pressure even if you don't!

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grantmac017



Joined: 04 Aug 2016
Posts: 557

PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dllee wrote:
I would estimate that around 1 in 3 windsurfers learned to jibe by failing to make any duckjibes.. or one duckjibe, out of their first 20 attempts.
Jibing is not reading a book. It's a feel that needs to be acquired, and trying a ducker is one shortcut.
Lots of sailors jump and try front and backloops before they can plane out of the majority of their jibes.


Wind died when out foiling, used the time to learn non planing duck gybes. Easier than they look.
I'm guessing the point of the lesson is over sheeting?
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VinceSF



Joined: 05 Apr 2005
Posts: 239
Location: Marin County, CA

PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

grantmac017 wrote:
The issue is how I get it forward.

Bend your knees. This will put your body forward.
Look at this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9kYtpe7XJs&ab_channel=TWSTenerifeWindsurfSolution.
3:60 mn into it then 5:30. your knees becomes your suspension that will absorbed the chop.
Then look at the guy's position at 6:45, that looks uncomfortable but if it's only for a second. His body is moving forward and into the turn. His weight will keep the board from bouncing too much, it is directly above the straps, not in between.
Good luck.

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fxop



Joined: 13 Jun 1998
Posts: 151

PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some people say bend your knees, others find it more helpful to think "bend your ankles".

If you bend your ankles and let your hips come forward into the turn, your front foot should come up off the heel, the top of your foot pressing against the foot strap. Your carve will improve, the board will feel slicker, and the front foot won't be stuck when you're ready to switch feet.

When you do this right the board accelerates very quickly downwind and the force comes off the sail immediately.

As a learner you don't want to let your hips move forward. You want to keep them back to counterbalance the pull of the sail. Now you're bent over, no ankle flex, and everything goes to hell.

Dasher covers this really well, with a dry land exercise and a pretty assistant.

Finally, keep your head up and "look where you're going". This seems to make all of the above happen automatically.

fxop
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westender



Joined: 02 Aug 2007
Posts: 1091
Location: Portland / Gorge

PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I usually never make the same jibe unless the water and wind is the same as the jibe before which is not often. I am trying to keep my weight and position on the board in the best spot fore and aft and side to side to maintain the carve radius through the turn. Bend ankles to help keep forward, flex knees to absorb the bumps and maintain balance. Do whatever footwork and sail flip that keeps you on the board. The faster you're going the more you can lean to the inside of the turn to counteract the centrifugal force. Sounds like you're still struggling to keep your carve through the turn. Resort to clew first and step when all else fails.
Learning new things, there are plateaus and frustrations where you feel like you're not progressing. Often it's not a smooth graph upward but a series of stair steps.
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