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Metal
Joined: 18 May 2001 Posts: 1
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Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2001 9:21 pm Post subject: Why not a Race Sail? |
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I am in the market for a new used sail in the 7.6 - 8.0 range. Im an intermediate sailer. What is the difference in a race sail and a freeride sail? Will I be disapointed in the race sail for everyday go fast have fun? |
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spyder
Joined: 24 Sep 1996 Posts: 2790 Location: oahu
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Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2001 12:51 am Post subject: RE: Why not a Race Sail? |
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most race sails are kinda heavy, lots of cams and battens. It gives them power and extremely stable draft.
they usually take a lot of downhaul.
but otherwise are excellent sails, and can take a lot of wind. the extra weight can make them tough to waterstart. |
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999 Posts: 20935
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Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2001 12:35 pm Post subject: RE: Why not a Race Sail? |
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Dont get me started; I dont have time for a thorough answer. But briefly, most race sails:
1. Are a pain to rig right, even a huge pain in some cases.
2. By definition, provide limited power in lighter winds (for a given sail size) in return for allowing usto use a 7.5 when our buds are rippin on their 6.0s. i.e., their peformance is deliberately biased to the overpowered regime to give them less drag in relatively high winds. i.e., A 7.5 race sail and a 6.0 freeride sail have very roughly the same amount of power; the race sail just remains stable in stringer gusts.
3. Race sails have wide luff sleeves which make waterstarting dang near impossible once the luff sleeve is flooded. People who fall in the water curse em.
4. They are virtually non-responsive when the driver tries to maneuver them, feeling more like a brick wall than a responsive, willing foil. They FEEL much heavier than a same-sized freeride sail when trying to maneuve them. If all ya want to do is sail in straight lines, you may not care about that.
5. They usually cost more.
6. Did I mention some of them can be a HUGE pain to rig and de-rig?
7. I tested scores of brands of hundreds of sails of all types for years, and you couldnt GIVE me a race sail
8. If you plan to race upwind for big bucks, forget #1-7 and buy a race sail. Otherwise they make no sense any more, now that camless sails do everything ELSE as well or better.
Strong, blanket statements, I realize. But this has been discussed MANY times at GREAT length on rec.windsurfing, and much better sailors than I tend to agree with my very strong opinion on this matter.
Even if you ignore my advice, do yourself a big favor: demo, rig, sail, try to maneuver, drown, waterstart, and de-rig a full-blown race sail before buying one, and do the same with a freewide sail at least a meter smaller at the same time. The comparison should convince you.
Mike \m/ |
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gemoore
Joined: 14 May 2001 Posts: 494
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Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2001 7:59 pm Post subject: RE: Why not a Race Sail? |
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Agree with all this, but Mike has uncharacteristically understated his case on how expensive they are, and what a PAIN they are to rig!
To briefly state the positives, mainly because you are talking about fairly big sails. Above 7.5, and definitely above 8.0, youre talking about a lot of fabric (i.e., monofilm), and cams help hold it stable. The downside problems only get worse, however. Much worse. Boards magazine recently had a graphic showing how marginally a big sail helps with early planing. The returns are very diminishing, and the costs are high. You may live in an area where it makes the difference, only you can decide...
GEM |
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rickp
Joined: 07 Aug 2000 Posts: 53
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Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2001 12:05 pm Post subject: RE: Why not a Race Sail? |
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GEM, Can you summarize the Boards chart here? Magazine not generally availble in the US, and info not on their site. Trying to decide whether it makes sense to go bigger than my 7.0 for use with my Phoenix 320. Thanks, rick p |
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gemoore
Joined: 14 May 2001 Posts: 494
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Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2001 7:09 pm Post subject: RE: Why not a Race Sail? |
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Gorge sailors can skip this note.
Their graph showed two curves approaching asymptotes; the x axis was sail size, the y axis was wind speed. The top curve was an estimate of too overpowered to hold, the bottom curve was minimum wind to plane. Because the bottom curve was shifted to the right of the top curve, the range of wind when you could plane with a bigger sail but not a smaller sail is actually pretty small in the 10 - 16 knot range. By their estimate, about 3-4 knots of wind speed. From a 7.0, youd probably want to go to a 9.0 or so.
My own experience on my light wind stuff bears this out. By pumping like hell (as many as 7 or 8 monster pumps) I can plane almost as early with my 7.0 Z1 as I can with my 8.7 Z1. The 8.7 is a far superior sail, though, because it has enormously higher range than the 7.0 (which was designed for powered up sailing). The reduced weight of the rig and lower drag of the smaller rig helps make up for some of the lesser lift. In 14 knots, I can get the 7.0 to plane with some pumping; I can get the 8.7 planing in 10 knots (using a 113L 25 wide Berky freeride).
The important point was that the jump in sail size that is required to get you planing is fairly large, and mostly limited to the 7 - 11 knot wind range. Moreover, many users will have trouble with ultra big sails (i.e., >8.0) when the wind picks up, and would prefer a smaller sail for easier handling anyway. The real reason racers like big rigs flat and controllable is so that they always have enough sail, and if thats what youre looking for a big race sail (or maybe a non-cambered sail) is for you.
So these big behemoths do have a place, but its a fairly limited role. Schlogging around holding up a really heavy rig (not to mention uphauling) is a drag. So the reason to get one is if you absolutely want to get every planing day possible. If you live in a place where there are frequent 10 knot days but infrequent 14 knot days, it may be worth it, especially if youre good at monster pumps to get planing. Get a superwide EP board to go with it, and a lot of sailors at your site will be envious - but the price (in effort and money) is really high. (Youll need a new mast, boom, sail, and fin if you really want to plane early you dont want to mess around getting the heavy hardware - youll go all carbon.)
As an alternative, consider staying the smaller rig youve got, and using the light air days to learn helitacks, and other freestyle tricks. The Phoenix would be a good starter platform for this, and the time spend learning these sail and board handling skills will reward you greatly when the wind picks up.
I myself am using my race sails less and less. Theyre *wonderful* sails, I do LOVE them, but they are a real pain to rig and to hold in the schlog mode. More importantly, by setting non-planing goals to achieve, I dont get skunked when theres not enough wind to plane. So its good for my attitude.
GEM |
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rickp
Joined: 07 Aug 2000 Posts: 53
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Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2001 5:15 pm Post subject: RE: Why not a Race Sail? |
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Thanks for the detailed response! Think Ill take your advice and practice freestyle when its light. And I can always drive the extra hour to the Delta if I really need a planeing fix. rick p |
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