myiW Current Conditions and Forecasts Community Forums Buy and Sell Services
 
Hi guest · myAccount · Log in
 SearchSearch   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   RegisterRegister 
First smaller board to get?
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    iWindsurf Community Forum Index -> Windsurfing Discussion
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 8258

PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't buy a smaller board until you can waterstart regularly on what you've got. Buying a floaty 130-150+ liter because you still need to uphaul is clearly the wrong path. Once you're at the stage where you can dependably waterstart, you're in the 100-120 liter zone. Anything bigger than that is for very light winds and large sails. Trust me on this. Just look at the regulars around you at the lake.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
konajoe



Joined: 28 Feb 2010
Posts: 471

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another vote for sticking with your board for a while.

Small lakes usually = wind that is not steady. In general, the smaller the board, the narrower the wind range that it works well in. So, small boards in small lakes can be troublesome.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mamero



Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Posts: 130
Location: Vancouver, Canada

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a recent beginner (I started in 2013) and someone who recently learned to waterstart here are my thoughts. I think staying TOO long on a BIG board is a crutch and can seriously hinder progression. Waterstarting is a pretty advanced skill generally speaking. If you are learning to waterstart on a big beginner board you are either learning to waterstart WAY too early in your progression or, if youíve learned other important skills already, youíve waited too long to drop your board size. Iím not saying you should go from 250L to 100L. Certainly not in one step. However, IF you are on a big board the goal should be to drop down as quick as possible. Earlier than later. I would NOT recommended investing serious money in a big board unless financial resources are not an issue or you find something second hand at a good price. Ideally rent or borrow in the beginning. If youíve been bit by the windsurfing bug and you are out sailing even once a week during just the summer, your needs for a big beginner board will quickly diminish. Itís like buying brand new hockey gear for an eight year old. You know that if they practice they are going to outgrow it very quickly. Especially in the beginning.

This is my progression and board size history. I started August 2013. Season 1 was short because I started late. Note. Iím 5í6Ē, 138 lbs, and am a salt water sailor.

Season 1-2. I RENTED! This way I could try a variety of board types and sizes. My go-to board from the rental fleet was a Starboard Rio 175 with a daggerboard. I quickly learned to sail WITHOUT the daggerboard as quick as possible. Even in light winds and strong tides! If you want to move to shortboards this needs to be learned sooner than later. A daggerboard long-term is a crutch unless you are content to putt around the lake casually. If so thatís fine. If not, then learn to use the rail of the board as a daggerboard in light winds and strong currents. For a time I contemplated purchasing this board along with a 5.4 sail from the rental club. In retrospect I am SO glad I did not. I outgrew this board and sail in a matter of a month or two!

End of season 2. I still had some time remaining with rentals (I bought an unlimited season rental again for season 2) but I came across a deal for a complete package on Craigslist halfway in to my rental season. The package included a 7.0 North Sail and a Starboard GO 171. This was my first board! No daggerboard! I already learned to sail without it.

BTW, that 7.0 sail felt like a huge monster at the time but, after only 1-2 sessions I had adapted. That sail became my favourite go-to sail for the next two seasons! Sail sizes are another story though.

On the Starboard Go 171, my first personal board, I learned to Beachstart. I started to learn the harness, tacks, and started to work on non-planning Gybes. I also started to get a taste for some planing. No footstraps yet. I used this board for the end of season 2 and part of season 3. By season 3 I could tell the Go 171 was WAY to big! It was time to find my first real shortboard.

Season 3. I found a second hand Starboard Carve 131 for $250. On this board I got my first REAL planing. By now my front foot was in the front strap often. The back strap still proved elusive and scary. I had more or less mastered the harness (or at least got comfortable), I learned to fast-tack. My non-planing gybes were getting better. Stance started to get some attention and tweaking. I also starting to work on waterstarts later in the season. By the end of season 3 I was able to occasionally clear the rig from the water at depth and occasionally deep beach start (Shoulder depth) but full waterstarts were elusive. In moderate to stronger wind days I started to feel even the 121 was a bit big; especially in chop.

Season 4. At the start of Season 4 I sailed the 131 but shortly in to the season I was lucky to find a Carve 121 for sale on Craigslist. It was the EXACT same board as the 131 but 10 litres smaller. Perfect! I bought this board and sold the 131. On the 121 I accomplished a LOT! This is the board I learned full footstraps on. I learned to seriously blast, and consistently! I also learned to deep waterstart on this board, at LAST! During strong wind days I could tell the 121 was too big. By then Iíd downsized enough to know when a board was too big. The 121 was perfect for light or moderate days but not for high winds. Itís was time to find a SECOND board so I can start to get a feel for high wind sailing. During season 4 I totally lucked out and found a 2014 Starboard Kode Carbon FSW 94l for only $500! SCORE!

Season 5 (Present) is now coming up. I still have the Carve 121 and the Kode 94. Iím still getting familiar with the Kode. It is stretching my capability again which is good. The 121L generally feels good size wise BUT itís kind of old. I would like to upgrade to a newer Carve 121 OR maybe a Futura 114. Presently I can now Beachstart, tack, non-plane gybe, use the harness, footstraps, blast in control, and waterstart.

The goal for this coming seasonÖ CARVE Gybes! I will continue to look for a newer Carve 121 or Futura 105-114.

Phew, sorry for the long post. Thanks for letting me ramble. Hopefully this helps someone choose a board. Take it for what itís worth.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
gvogelsang



Joined: 09 Nov 1988
Posts: 408

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mamero wrote:
As a recent beginner (I started in 2013) and someone who recently learned to waterstart here are my thoughts. I think staying TOO long on a BIG board is a crutch and can seriously hinder progression. Waterstarting is a pretty advanced skill generally speaking. If you are learning to waterstart on a big beginner board you are either learning to waterstart WAY too early in your progression or, if youíve learned other important skills already, youíve waited too long to drop your board size. Iím not saying you should go from 250L to 100L. Certainly not in one step. However, IF you are on a big board the goal should be to drop down as quick as possible. Earlier than later. I would NOT recommended investing serious money in a big board unless financial resources are not an issue or you find something second hand at a good price. Ideally rent or borrow in the beginning. If youíve been bit by the windsurfing bug and you are out sailing even once a week during just the summer, your needs for a big beginner board will quickly diminish. Itís like buying brand new hockey gear for an eight year old. You know that if they practice they are going to outgrow it very quickly. Especially in the beginning.

This is my progression and board size history. I started August 2013. Season 1 was short because I started late. Note. Iím 5í6Ē, 138 lbs, and am a salt water sailor.

Season 1-2. I RENTED! This way I could try a variety of board types and sizes. My go-to board from the rental fleet was a Starboard Rio 175 with a daggerboard. I quickly learned to sail WITHOUT the daggerboard as quick as possible. Even in light winds and strong tides! If you want to move to shortboards this needs to be learned sooner than later. A daggerboard long-term is a crutch unless you are content to putt around the lake casually. If so thatís fine. If not, then learn to use the rail of the board as a daggerboard in light winds and strong currents. For a time I contemplated purchasing this board along with a 5.4 sail from the rental club. In retrospect I am SO glad I did not. I outgrew this board and sail in a matter of a month or two!

End of season 2. I still had some time remaining with rentals (I bought an unlimited season rental again for season 2) but I came across a deal for a complete package on Craigslist halfway in to my rental season. The package included a 7.0 North Sail and a Starboard GO 171. This was my first board! No daggerboard! I already learned to sail without it.

BTW, that 7.0 sail felt like a huge monster at the time but, after only 1-2 sessions I had adapted. That sail became my favourite go-to sail for the next two seasons! Sail sizes are another story though.

On the Starboard Go 171, my first personal board, I learned to Beachstart. I started to learn the harness, tacks, and started to work on non-planning Gybes. I also started to get a taste for some planing. No footstraps yet. I used this board for the end of season 2 and part of season 3. By season 3 I could tell the Go 171 was WAY to big! It was time to find my first real shortboard.

Season 3. I found a second hand Starboard Carve 131 for $250. On this board I got my first REAL planing. By now my front foot was in the front strap often. The back strap still proved elusive and scary. I had more or less mastered the harness (or at least got comfortable), I learned to fast-tack. My non-planing gybes were getting better. Stance started to get some attention and tweaking. I also starting to work on waterstarts later in the season. By the end of season 3 I was able to occasionally clear the rig from the water at depth and occasionally deep beach start (Shoulder depth) but full waterstarts were elusive. In moderate to stronger wind days I started to feel even the 121 was a bit big; especially in chop.

Season 4. At the start of Season 4 I sailed the 131 but shortly in to the season I was lucky to find a Carve 121 for sale on Craigslist. It was the EXACT same board as the 131 but 10 litres smaller. Perfect! I bought this board and sold the 131. On the 121 I accomplished a LOT! This is the board I learned full footstraps on. I learned to seriously blast, and consistently! I also learned to deep waterstart on this board, at LAST! During strong wind days I could tell the 121 was too big. By then Iíd downsized enough to know when a board was too big. The 121 was perfect for light or moderate days but not for high winds. Itís was time to find a SECOND board so I can start to get a feel for high wind sailing. During season 4 I totally lucked out and found a 2014 Starboard Kode Carbon FSW 94l for only $500! SCORE!

Season 5 (Present) is now coming up. I still have the Carve 121 and the Kode 94. Iím still getting familiar with the Kode. It is stretching my capability again which is good. The 121L generally feels good size wise BUT itís kind of old. I would like to upgrade to a newer Carve 121 OR maybe a Futura 114. Presently I can now Beachstart, tack, non-plane gybe, use the harness, footstraps, blast in control, and waterstart.

The goal for this coming seasonÖ CARVE Gybes! I will continue to look for a newer Carve 121 or Futura 105-114.

Phew, sorry for the long post. Thanks for letting me ramble. Hopefully this helps someone choose a board. Take it for what itís worth.


Great story. Well done.

I learned the skills that you learned, but over a much longer time period. But, when I learned , there was only the original Windsurfer - with baggy sail and teak booms. I learned the harness on that board, and then I learned to use the footsteps on a Starboard Maui.

By the time that I bought an F2 Bullit, I could waterstart. Then a Sunset Slalom, where I got pretty proficient with jibes. And, I also had a Fanatic Ultracat for lighter wind days and cruising.

MY point? AS you progress in skills, you will want to try smaller boards. But, there is also a place for long boards as well - for cruising, or racing, or having fun on days when planing on a short board is not possible.

These days I have a Formula board for light wind planing. But, that doesn't always work. I wish I had the $$$ for a Kona, or Kona Carbone, for those days when going upwind, downwind would be fun: cruising, being there and going back.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
joethewindsufa



Joined: 10 Oct 2010
Posts: 800
Location: Montrťal

PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

people want to plane and go FAST
if I can have FUN, TOW and the sun is shining - perfect world
people wave sail in non-Hawaii/Hookipa conditions all the time
surfing is popular on Long Island and they go in small waves ...

old longboards are still available - don't need a new Kona (used avail)
i often go when there is NO ONE on the lake
when the conditions are great, the place is PACKED !!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6OskDywGtc
FUN and TOW Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 2648

PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would not go to a smaller board until you can plane with good speed, in the straps and harness. Beach starts should probably be in this too. Not essential, but recommended at this point is water starts. If you go to a smaller board that is difficult to uphaul (less than 130L for a 190lb guy), and don't have water starts, it will be a pain in the ass to mess with.

Don't forget the other stuff I mentioned earlier. It just takes time and commitment to progress through the learning curve.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
konajoe



Joined: 28 Feb 2010
Posts: 471

PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey rtz, are you still there? The Original Windsurfer mentioned in a recent thread doesn't sail or look like any board made today. I learned to sail on one also. It doesn't plane well, even when grossly overpowered. The versions we learned on didn't have footstraps or a retractable centerboard. So the transition to shorter boards was like learning all over again.

Modern longboards like yours will sail very similar to a shorter board once you figure out how to get that bad boy on a plane in the straps. I can think of 4 people I know who learned to master a big board first, and were able to sail an 80 liter short board within 30 minutes of getting on it the first time.

So, no doubt, you can get progressively smaller boards in the near future. And that will work. But mastering what you own is a very good option. You will need a bigger rig.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
konajoe



Joined: 28 Feb 2010
Posts: 471

PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's common when we're new to something, that we don't know how to ask the right questions. This board has similar dimensions as the Mistral Prodigy, but only has a 34 cm fin. The centerboard also seems to be pretty small.

So, rtz is going to want a bigger rig. But he'd also need a much bigger fin to get planing. I wonder if the construction of the board can handle it. Also, having a fin close to the same size as the centerboard may make it really hard to turn. Thoughts?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
cgoudie1



Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 1924
Location: Killer Sturgeon Cove

PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

With 15-20 the most common wind at his lake and weighing in at 190 lbs
he's going to want a 7M sail most of the time, but........ he stated he
currently thinks his 5.5 is too large. Sounds like TOW is what's needed
before a lot of expense, but I do think settling in on a 6.5 or 7.0 is going to
be the good call in about 20 days worth of TOW.

-Craig

p.s. a 13 inch fin will work with a 7.0, but something in the 38-40cm range
would be better.

konajoe wrote:
It's common when we're new to something, that we don't know how to ask the right questions. This board has similar dimensions as the Mistral Prodigy, but only has a 34 cm fin. The centerboard also seems to be pretty small.

So, rtz is going to want a bigger rig. But he'd also need a much bigger fin to get planing. I wonder if the construction of the board can handle it. Also, having a fin close to the same size as the centerboard may make it really hard to turn. Thoughts?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
konajoe



Joined: 28 Feb 2010
Posts: 471

PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Board is 91 cm wide.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    iWindsurf Community Forum Index -> Windsurfing Discussion All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Page 4 of 5

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You can attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum

myiW | Weather | Community | Membership | Support | Log in
like us on facebook
© Copyright 1999-2007 WeatherFlow, Inc Contact Us Ad Marketplace

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group