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Point of sail: what exactly does it refer to?
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aleko.petkov



Joined: 10 Sep 2014
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 3:06 am    Post subject: Point of sail: what exactly does it refer to? Reply with quote

Does point of sail refer to the board orientation or to the sail orientation? Or is it just a general angle off true wind?

For example, say you start on a "beam reach" (board at 90˚ to the wind, and the sail at 45˚). As the board accelerates, the apparent wind moves forward, so you trim the sail closer and closer, until it is close hauled. Now the board is still on a beam reach, but the sail is on a close haul. So, what is the point of sail in this case - beam reach? close hauled? "blast reach"?
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 19268

PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Point of sail is measured from the true/ambient wind to the direction the board is traveling. (i.e., if you're spun out and sliding sideways directly across the ambient wind, you're probably in a beam reach even though you're pointed upwind.)

At least that's what I read at the Holiday Inn last night. Smile
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cgoudie1



Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 2264
Location: Killer Sturgeon Cove

PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 11:26 am    Post subject: Re: Point of sail: what exactly does it refer to? Reply with quote

What Mike said, you're still on a beam reach and your point of sail is still
90˚degrees, until your board deviates its overall direction of travel some where
above or below a beam reach.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_of_sail#mediaviewer/File:Points_of_sail.svg

I don't think I've encountered the term "blast reach", but I like the idea
of a broad reach turning into a blast. ;*)

-Craig


aleko.petkov wrote:
Does point of sail refer to the board orientation or to the sail orientation? Or is it just a general angle off true wind?

For example, say you start on a "beam reach" (board at 90˚ to the wind, and the sail at 45˚). As the board accelerates, the apparent wind moves forward, so you trim the sail closer and closer, until it is close hauled. Now the board is still on a beam reach, but the sail is on a close haul. So, what is the point of sail in this case - beam reach? close hauled? "blast reach"?
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gobbdogg



Joined: 28 Sep 2008
Posts: 160

PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The point of sail is to have fun!!!!!
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 3469

PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Google sailing terminology and you will find many sites with detailed descriptions answering your question.

Point of sail is most commonly described by direction on a 360 degree compass. There are sailing terms as pointed out, that describe the various specific or general directions. Beam reach (90 degrees). Run (180 degrees), etc.

When windsurfers talk about direction, it's usually descriptive rather than points on the compass. And there are lots of additional directional sailing terms used in addition to what was outlined on the posted web site.
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whitevan01



Joined: 29 Jun 2007
Posts: 605

PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"blast reach" is a quasi-official term from boat sailing, which loosely means broad reaching in way too much wind. Or, what windsurfers would call "just enough wind"

as the OP alluded to, the sail(s) of windsurfers and high-performance catamarans are pretty much always close-hauled due to the apparent wind moving forward when traveling at speeds above windspeed.
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cgoudie1



Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 2264
Location: Killer Sturgeon Cove

PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So something like D in this diagram then ;*)

-Craig



whitevan01 wrote:
"blast reach" is a quasi-official term from boat sailing, which loosely means broad reaching in way too much wind. Or, what windsurfers would call "just enough wind"




300px-Points_of_sail_svg.jpg
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DanWeiss



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 2276
Location: Connecticut, USA

PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
Point of sail is measured from the true/ambient wind to the direction the board is traveling. (i.e., if you're spun out and sliding sideways directly across the ambient wind, you're probably in a beam reach even though you're pointed upwind.)

At least that's what I read at the Holiday Inn last night. Smile


The sailing world does not define Angle of Sail as Isobars described. Angle of sail is the angle formed between the true wind and the direction the nose of your board is pointed. This difference really matters because it acts as a reference to discuss your actual direction of travel versus the true wind direction. From there, we now may have a useful reference to apparent wind and the effect of leeway (the angle of actual travel versus the direction you are pointed aka slip angle.)

True wind direction is to point of sail as apparent wind is to direction actual sailed. In the end, it takes time to discern both true wind from apparent and leeway or slip angle from point of sail as we are go faster and faster. Yet these differences very much impact how we get home as the wind drops or where we point our board when trying to sail to a particular point.

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RichardMueller



Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Posts: 85
Location: Phoenix, AZ

PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Point Of Sail"... is simple the direction your board/yacht/dinghy is on. It has nothing to do with the trim of sail.
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bred2shred



Joined: 02 May 2000
Posts: 966
Location: Jersey Shore

PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RichardMueller wrote:
"Point Of Sail"... is simple the direction your board/yacht/dinghy is on. It has nothing to do with the trim of sail.


Exactly. One way to determine your "point of sail" would be to look at the angle of your board relative to the waves/chop. In a very general sense, the wave faces will be perpendicular to the wind direction. If you're traveling parallel to the wave faces, you're on a beam reach. If you're hitting the waves at a shallow angle, you're on a close reach. If you're traveling down the waves at an angle, that's a broad reach.

There isn't really a distinct "line in the sand" where one point of sail ends and another begins. These are fairly general designations.

sm
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