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bred2shred
Joined: 02 May 2000 Posts: 989 Location: Jersey Shore
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Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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keycocker wrote: | Our entire group has been changing them offshore for thirty years.
No incidents.
Anyone here who has done it hundreds of time and think it was a bad idea?
Or only folks who rarely or never even tried?
Just curious. |
Are you refering to changing the outhaul and downhaul on the water or the mast foot position? I adjust the outhaul from time to time on the water. That's a fairly easy one. Dip in the water, untie the outhaul, make the adjustment, re- tie and waterstart away. The downhaul can be loosened reasonably easily on the water if you're careful and don't let off too much. Tightening the downhaul obviously requires being able to sit on solid ground.
Moving the mast foot position in the track is very risky IMO. I use the traditional hourglass u-joint and push pin cup. This means the rig would need to be disconnected from the board and held in one hand while adjusting the position of the foot. Then the board would have to be flipped on its side and the mast base aligned to the push pins and reconnected to the foot. I've done it in chest deep water and it is a PITA. No way I would do this out on the water. Much easier to just come in.
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LeeD
Joined: 12 Jun 2008 Posts: 1175
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Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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2 very wrong things.
Don't hold your rig, lay the mast extension and lower part of the sail on the front of your board while you mess with the mast base.
NEVER EVER jump off your board to plug in the rig.
Instead, SIT on your board, lay the sail out to the side across the board, bend the uni joint by holding the basecup (pins aligned, it's EASY), and shove the mast extension over the basecup, pins aligned.
If you get off your board, the swell bounces the board and you up and down, not in syncronization, while the mast extension bounces a third rythum.
If you sit ON your board, all 3 things rise and fall in unison. |
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boardsurfr
Joined: 23 Aug 2001 Posts: 1266
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Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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bred2shred wrote: | Tightening the downhaul obviously requires being able to sit on solid ground. |
No, it does not - you just need the right technique. Get off the board, tie a bowline in the downhaul, hook it into your harness, and push with your feet against the side of the board. Can be done in shallow or in deep water. Saw my lovely wife (who uses a downhaul winch on shore) do this just a couple of days ago. She learned at an ABK camp, and does it on a regular basis. Her freestyle sails have a limited untuned range, but a huge range if you adjust outhaul and downhaul.
Make sure the knot is a bowline (or, if you're German, a Palstek). If you use another knot that tightens under pressure, you may have a hard time getting the line off your harness. Also, this is a bit easier to use for adding downhaul than for reducing downhaul. |
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justall
Joined: 30 Jul 2007 Posts: 442
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Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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LeeD wrote: | NEVER EVER jump off your board to plug in the rig ... If you sit ON your board, all 3 things rise and fall in unison. |
I never thought of that before. Good point. I'll try that sometime. I once didn't tighten the base enough and had a hell of a time trying to reconnect rig to board in chop and waves after they disconnected. I was exhausted trying to muscle it back together. Hadn't thought about creating a common reference frame (unison). |
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bamer
Joined: 16 Nov 2016 Posts: 98
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Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 12:31 am Post subject: |
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Thanks to keycocker for turning this thread around. Plenty of sailors adjust their mast foot on the water, especially racers that are tuning and may not be near shore or just want to make adjustments faster.
Like keycocker, I have done this a few hundred times myself without incident and agree the Streamlined single bolt works the best.
Most mast tracks have a lip built into them towards the back of the track, so if you release just enough tension so the foot can slide, but not more than this, the foot can not slide out the back.
But, if you are worried about the foot sliding out the back, why not make a rubber safety plug to fill the hole in? Just find something soft but sturdy, trace the outline on it with a marker, and shape the thing with a palm sander until it is a press fit. Drop the mast foot in, press in the safety plug and go sailing. When you need to pop the plug out just slide the foot forward and get under the plug with a screwdriver. Or you can just leave the plug in and unthread the mast base from the tab and leave the tab in the track.
+1 on LeeD's technique does work for reattaching things if they come apart.
Not everyone sails on a river where it is easy to come in, on boards unresponsive to mast track position, or in consistent/ ideal conditions. Adjust away, just be aware that things can come apart if you are not careful, so practice everything from adjusting to reattaching in a safe place before you do it for real in a dangerous one. |
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999 Posts: 20935
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Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 9:13 am Post subject: |
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bamer wrote: | Not everyone sails on a river where it is easy to come in ... or in consistent/ ideal conditions. |
Wish I could find a place like that. I'd move there. |
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999 Posts: 20935
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Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 9:36 am Post subject: |
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zirtaeb wrote: | I find little need for adjustable outhauls in sails smaller than 7 meters. When you loosen the outhaul, it helps the downwind angle, but little else. You LOOSEN the leech with looser outhaul, so it in effect twists off more so you need more wind to pump onto a plane.
And tightening the outhaul does help a little, but you also tighten the leech, making the sail more on and off, and very powerful with the tighter leech that you pulled by tightening the outhaul. |
Depends on one's starting point. Since the wind in my first 100 to 500 yards is often nonexistent, very light, or gusting instantaneously over a range of 5 to 30 (a 3600% power range) or more,
A. I have to hike 100-300 feet in chest deep water THEN swim and/or ripslam the 100-500 yards.
B. I launch with my outhaul set at negative tension for max bottom end (i.e., planing) power*. Once I hit the wind line and can actually plane, I snug it up to normal and go windsurfing.
C. I ain't swimming or trying to slog back to shore over that wind shadow for NOTHIN' short of full darkness or a total and probably permanent loss of all wind.
* I know it helps, leech tension aside, because back when I ran adjustable outhauls I often just pushed the release button to dump outhaul tension while slogging rapidly, followed instantly by planing. (Some expert sailors use AOs even on their 3.x sails.)
If I'm rigged too big, I lengthen my boom and overtighten the outhaul up to an inch. Bottom end power is not lacking if that's necessary. If I'm rigged a bit too small even for the windy zone, I'll leave the outhaul loose and live with the slop or shorten the boom. It still beats crossing that wind shadow and its long hike twice. |
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keycocker
Joined: 10 Jul 2005 Posts: 3598
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Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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NW
Sure. As long as the beach is right there.
How about when the wind goes light and you want to get back to the beach six miles away in your 72 liter board?
Do you bag the sail, move the foot?
Do you swim your gear?
How about when the wind goes marginal after you spent an hour working to windward?
If you go shore it is likely over for you, while we sail another hour with adjustments we made miles upwind.
Learning to do this far out at sea is a dumb idea, just like learning to jibe or up haul.
Not knowing how to do this at all seems like a dumb idea too, just like not learning to jibe or up haul. |
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keycocker
Joined: 10 Jul 2005 Posts: 3598
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Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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I have never tried to move the mast foot offshore by unhooking the extension.
That seems dangerous.
Sit on the board, unscrew a little. Won't slide? Jump off and hold the board on its side with one arm wrapped around it and slide the foot with your other hand.
I have never had the foot slide out the back of the slot.
I leave the foot in the slot year around. It gets hard to remove in any case out the back of the slot, but still easy to slide because I do it more often.
Offshore I unscrew it until it barely slides because if you unscrew it too far it can be a hassle to screw back. |
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swchandler
Joined: 08 Nov 1993 Posts: 10588
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Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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If I'm sailing at a spot at low tide that's a minefield of rocks and barnacles to come in, I will adjust my outhaul on the outside if the wind drops. But that's the extent of rigging changes I make on the water.
In my comments earlier in this thread, I think some clarification is needed. My foolish attempt to adjust my universal position was due to the fact that apparently failed to tighten the universal properly before going out, and it moved to the front of the mast track while sailing. It wasn't because I felt the need to tweak my tuning because of the conditions. When it comes down to it, the only times that I move my mast track position is due sail size, and that's done before I launch. If I'm on a small board using a larger sail than what would be ideal, I will move the universal a bit more forward to balance things out. Similarly, when using a very small sail on a larger board, I will move the universal a bit more back in the track. Otherwise, I keep the universal in the optimum position, which tends to be right in the middle of the track.
The way that I look at, I use my experience in tuning my equipment, and then practice caution on the water. Other than tweaking the outhaul, I find that there is no need to change downhaul or mast track positions while out on the water. Now, if I blow it tightening the universal and it slides to the front of the track, I will live with it until I can sail in and correct the problem. Better to be safe than sorry. |
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