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Board design comparison - old v new (85 liters)
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PeconicPuffin



Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 1830

PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 6:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:

I don't understand how any rigid body would know anything more than where the center of pressure is; that 2005 Fanatic surely doesn't know nor care where his foot is pointed. Besides, doesn't pointing one's foot - and its attached knee -- forward interfere with bending the knees into the turn?


Good question, but it makes a substantial difference. I suspect the old (foot pointed more across the board) technique provides more rotational force around the board's centerline, while forward pointing (new) actually holds the nose of the board down better. In any event the forward pointing foot carries more speed through the turn on any modern FSW board I've tried.

The foot is not pointed straight at the nose, btw, and there's still plenty of opportunity for the knees to bend into the turn.

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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 4161

PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ditto on jingebritsen's post. Love seat harnesses. Raced longboards and Formula since 1985 and "hanging in the harness" is essential. Also, no pull on the lower back, which is critical for me. Pull from the hips instead and no riding up like the waist harness do.
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whitevan01



Joined: 29 Jun 2007
Posts: 607

PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

seat harness for big sails and smooth water

waist harness for chop and/or small sails

my 2 cents (yes, I use both, and may go from one to the other if sail/board/chop size changes)
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LeeD



Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 1175

PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use both also, but waist for 3.7-5.5.
Seat for 4.2 to 8.0.
Depends what I"m doing.
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ascott72



Joined: 12 Jun 2006
Posts: 124

PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have put more time in on the Fanatic and am enjoying it quite a bit now. (My first real day on it wss overpowered at the Hatch - not ideal by any means.) Sailed it st Event dite, Rowena, Dougs. Got a much better feel for it. Good bump and jump, surfs swell nicely.

On to the gybing. Got the gybing wired now. And it jibes fine - it is just a very different feeling gybe. I do use a seat harness and i am used to being way out then coming in and forward and engaging more of the middle of the board. With the Fanatic, with more volume in the tail and the mast track closer to the back and me probably being more upright over the tail, it doesn't feel like I have to do that. Just footsteer and it comes around. It is a decent gybe, its smooth and it gets me around, but somehow its not as technical, crisp, and rewarding.

Oh, and another interesting observation. Sailing in overpowered conditions, it was easier to complete my gybes because I could depower the sail more easily. Not sure if thats because I could turn off the wind easier or the changed body position allowed me to oversheet the sail more easily. Interesting.

Saw one of the new Naish waves on the beach today. I think this is the same board an early commenter mentioned. Fat with the wide point forward. very unusual looking.
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hilton08



Joined: 02 Apr 2000
Posts: 505

PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hilton08 wrote:

Does anyone still sail seat harnesses?

Perhaps I should rephrase my question...

Did any of the designers/testers of the Fanatic Freewave in question use a seat harness with the 85 liter board or was the design more optimized for the upright style of a waist harness?

I would agree that seat harnesses are more efficient for straight line slalom/race sailing where you only unhook when it is time to jibe (or tack).

But for bump and jump/wave sailing when you are constantly hooking in and unhooking with every jump or carve, the waist harness seems less disruptive to your overall balance since you are less committed to the harness.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 10588

PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 3:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What makes you think that using a seat harness restricts performance in any sailing venue? Why should a lower hook position be a difficult problem? It's pretty easy to unhook to jibe, jump or ride waves, and getting re-hooked is super simple. The type of harness one uses is based on the type of support preferred, and I don't think that has anything to do with the type of board or sail uses.
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jingebritsen



Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 3371

PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 5:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i know lots of folks that swear by either harness. i use the seat in all venues. worx for me. i see no liability in using a seat in the waves. that's about 80% of my sailing.

again, if one is standing on a board with a sail to propel it, why would one believe that slowing the sail's pull will somehow make the ride more comfortable? efforts to slow a kit down past it level of equalibrium of forces just makes the situation more uncomfortable. it's a self fulfilling cycle. "i want more control, so i'll sheet out (at the same time decreasing mast foot pressure, typically). wow, the sail is yanking me around, i had better go slower...." SLAM!

been there, learned to overcome that. technique and judgement, that's what this sport is all about.

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Last edited by jingebritsen on Wed Oct 01, 2014 4:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935

PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree when "going somewhere" in a more or less straight reach in any direction, but isn't a more upright stance valuable, or even necessary, when maneuvering or jumping often in chop, swell or DTL?
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hilton08



Joined: 02 Apr 2000
Posts: 505

PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

swchandler wrote:
What makes you think that using a seat harness restricts performance in any sailing venue?


Then there is Bernd who wears his waist harness like a seat...
Maybe it is time to start a new thread on this.
Did he forget his harness and could only borrow an XL???



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