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mac
Joined: 07 Mar 1999 Posts: 17750 Location: Berkeley, California
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Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 11:28 am Post subject: |
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As I said earlier, I have not held my breath waiting for mrgybe to tender either a persuasive, or polite argument on foreign policy. It never ceases to amaze me how self-professed Christians see no problems with their own hatred; only with that of others.
Comments that scoff at Obama as a self-described "smartest man in the room", particularly coming from someone who claims that his experience gives him that title, are neither incisive nor insightful. Some seem to have forgotten, or remain unbelievably angry, that Obama was elected on a platform of ending the war in Iraq and leaving the Iraqis to determine their own destiny. Scoffing comments about what super powers should do, and in doing so ignore the Iraqi constitution and the problems with Maliki, demonstrate some of the problems created by the arrogance of Americans, and those who do business in the Middle East buying oil. Even those with British accents.
Of course, unlike Bush, Obama sought a wide array of opinions, not just those of the military, in responding to the civil war in Syria. As the "decider" (who could forget that term), he backed those who said that intervening in Syria could result in the chaos that was unfolding in Libya and Egypt. And we should not be surprised that the military leaks their disagreement, and that authoritarians pick it up and repeat it without much thought, or understanding of the other lines of reasoning.
It is too early to know whether Obama's initial decision, or his new approach, are in fact mistakes. It is late enough to know, without a doubt, that the eagerness of Americans to see only positive news in the Arab Spring was naive.
I am disappointed in Obama for deciding to use the War Powers Act resolution on Iraq rather than go to Congress before he acts in Syria. I think that Constitutional issues, and problems with the evolving imperial Presidency are both far bigger issues than the future of Syria. But such nuances seem to be lost on those who only attack Obama, and who heap scorn on those who defend Obama from their cheap bullying. |
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mrgybe
Joined: 01 Jul 2008 Posts: 5181
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Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe it's time to return to this post...........three years ago when I was chastened as "clearly wrong" for doubting the wisdom of the President's actions in Libya and Iraq. I guess one man's "clearly wrong" is another man's "nailed it".
mac wrote: | It seems time to return to this topic, with the death of Gadaffi (however you want to spell his name) and the imminent departure of US troops from Iraq. How well I remember mrgybe's complaint that Obama didn't know what he was doing, and he was either doing it to fast or too slow. Whatever he heard from his right wing sources. We shouldn't hold mrgybe's feet too close the fire, or gloat that he was so clearly wrong, after all Bill Maher said that Mitt Romney has had 5 different positions on Libya. |
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mac
Joined: 07 Mar 1999 Posts: 17750 Location: Berkeley, California
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Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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Careful now, I've heard of people badly hurt while patting themselves on the back. |
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999 Posts: 20935
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Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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Obama is apparently now ISIS's Advisor In Chief.
He said publicly (i.e., told them) that if they had just sent those journalists home alive with a note on them saying "Butt out", the public wouldn't be clamoring for action now and the air strikes could have been averted.
Whose side is he on?
In case a translation is required: He is telling the enemy how to manipulate America's will to fight them.
The same question applies to House and Senate politicians who openly oppose action until after the election. Do they not realize that WE realize they value their reelection over thousands of lives, many of them potentially Americans? |
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MalibuGuru
Joined: 11 Nov 1993 Posts: 9300
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Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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isobars wrote: | Obama is apparently now ISIS's Advisor In Chief.
He said publicly (i.e., told them) that if they had just sent those journalists home alive with a note on them saying "Butt out", the public wouldn't be clamoring for action now and the air strikes could have been averted.
Whose side is he on?
In case a translation is required: He is telling the enemy how to manipulate America's will to fight them.
The same question applies to House and Senate politicians who openly oppose action until after the election. Do they not realize that WE realize they value their reelection over thousands of lives, many of them potentially Americans? |
Obama and his "useful idiots" are beyond criminal.... |
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999 Posts: 20935
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Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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For hundreds of years, illegal U.S. southern border crossings involved expensive, covert, evasive, grueling, near-death and often deadly marches across miles of remote deserts. They risked armed pursuit, perhaps incarceration, and/or even deportation for the duration of their trespass throughout the nation.
Now people of any age and origin can just openly bop across the border (via inner tube, paraglider, catapult, pogo stick, jet ski, a short hike or swim, hell, one simple step under or over a strand of barbed wire as I have personally done) right in front of God, the Border Patrol ... hell, the POTUS, the U.S. AG, and the National Guard. They then raise their hands or one finger and say "I'm 15 years old and my uncle lives in Trump Towers. I'm heeeeeeeere and I WANNIT!". Instead of handcuffs, they get a free ride to Trump Towers, schools, medical care, food, shelter, drivers' licenses in some states, clothes, probably cell phones, and MUCH more, virtually permanently, for themselves and -- you know damned well, ultimately -- for their "extended family" in the bowels of South America or Whathefukistan ... all at taxpayers' expense.
Need a Qoran? No prob, Senor Mohammed. There are stashes of them waiting on our side of the border for all you nice terrorists (no joke; they've been found and documented). MS13 tats hiding their faces? Free ride to L.A. Gray hair? "But I'm 14, I swear" (commonplace).
Meantime million of legitimate Americans and immigrants go hungry, unschooled, unemployed, uninsured, etc.
The lasting legacy of Barack Obama: open borders at the expense of citizens, legal immigrants, and American blood.
And all we get from the Left here (and across the land) is fart jokes, cries of "racist!", and other baseless personal attacks. |
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swchandler
Joined: 08 Nov 1993 Posts: 10588
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Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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Airheads, what are we going to do with them? |
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nw30
Joined: 21 Dec 2008 Posts: 6485 Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast
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Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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swchandler wrote: | Airheads, what are we going to do with them? |
A case in point. |
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keycocker
Joined: 10 Jul 2005 Posts: 3598
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Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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In the real world the borders are much better protected in recent years.
In 1992 we had 4139 border agents.
In 2012 we had over 22,000, plus drones, Helios, walls .....
As someone else posted, my friends in the Juarez area would cross the Rio to have family picnics on the US side in years past.
The water is shallow in summer so they would just wade.
Now that stretch of border looks like a prison camp.
If you know nothing about the US border, you can be fooled into thinking it was opened up wide on the day Obama was elected so he could get illegals to vote for him.
That seems so stupid when you say it, but it is beloved by folks on this board and a whole lot of others who read rightist press.
Among the dumbest things they are chanting to the faithful like Iso. |
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nw30
Joined: 21 Dec 2008 Posts: 6485 Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast
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Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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60 Minutes, this Sunday night, I think the lefties here should watch it, it will have Leon Panetta on, and he has some very damning things to say about BHO pulling, what is now being called by the military, as the "Obama bug out".
This is what happens when you don't secure the peace.
Also, anyone catch "American War Generals" on National Geographic channel? It's a must see, starts with the Viet Nam war and goes up to present day. The lessons learned, and the lessons that are still not being learned. (it was on last night, but will be shown again)
After seeing that, it's was pretty obvious that Obama knows nothing about the Viet Nam war, he seems to want to follow the same steps as LBJ, but w/o boots on the ground, which will make the outcome even more perilous.
We're in for a world of hurt. |
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