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When is the best time to learn the forward loop?
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935

PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wind-NC-Hatteras wrote:
Don't feed the fear factory.

Don't have to. A bud who broke MANY masts and sported a bruised butt for over a year fed that just fine, as did the guys in WSMag who stuffed their wetsuits with bubble wrap to reduce the pain.

Just opening some eyes to the fact that "It's only water" is no guarantee.
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3598

PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am surprised Matt Pritchard school has it so completely wrong.
I thought he gives excellent instruction.
Could you take the time to straighten him out on his website?

Did you notice yourself giving tips on the "inter web " while also advising folks to ignore tips on the inter web. LOL

Sometimes posters are absolutely sure there is only one way to learn a skill. It is invariably the method taught at their school. That is why they use that method. They may ,in fact, be right.
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Wind-NC.com



Joined: 30 May 2007
Posts: 980
Location: Formerly Cape Hatteras, now Burlington, VT!

PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 2:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

keycocker wrote:
Did you notice yourself giving tips on the "inter web " while also advising folks to ignore tips on the inter web. LOL


Very Happy I was hoping someone would notice that! Laughing

There are many schools and many teaching methods, as well as many different student types. Please note that I am an advocate for taking lessons from multiple instructors.

I think you misread some of my other comments, too- I never said anything about Matt Pritchard's methods and am sure that his instruction is invaluable. According to you, he has you stand crotch deep in the water without a board and practice throwing yourself around the mast, landing on your back. Cool drill! That's great and I'm glad that you found it helpful. What I was talking about was the thing where you stand on the board, planing but out of the footstraps, and throw yourself between the mast and the nose, inevitably landing on the side of your face (not your back). Not so great... and in my opinion an pretty worthless drill that was floating around the east coast for awhile. Maybe the rest of the world was lucky enough not to hear about it (until now) Laughing

Anyway, sorry for any miscommunication! -Andy

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formerly known as hodad.andy

http://wind-nc.com
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3598

PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 3:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry to misread you .your school is top notch.
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rigitrite



Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 520
Location: Kansas City

PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wyatt Miller/Tyson Poor - Take a clinic with these guys. Wyatt can teach you to forward in an afternoon.
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bred2shred



Joined: 02 May 2000
Posts: 989
Location: Jersey Shore

PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would consider myself an intermediate looper. I've been working them on and off for quite a while, but not something I attempt on a consistent basis. I have splatted on quite a few and sailed away cleanly from a handful. The sensation of rotating is very cool however and worth going for.

I think you want to be very comfortable with your jumps. Comfortable to the point that you can direct the board and make small corrections mid-flight. The conditions really seem to play a role as well. The smaller the rig you can be on the better as it is less gear to manage mid flight. Personally, I like to be on a my 5.3 as the largest and 4.4 or smaller is preferred (this is part of the reason I don't attempt them as often). You don't need huge ramps, but you do need a fairly "pointy" ramp that will pitch the nose of the board up and allow you to get some float to your jump. You also don't want to hit the ramp at full speed. You want to be fully powered but somewhat over your board as opposed to hiking out hard. A slightly larger board seems to help here as it will be easier to get a floatier jump with a little less speed.

I'm sure some instruction would be helpful if available. I didn't have that luxury since no one in my area (that I'm aware of) loops and I spent a lot of time splatting before I got the feel for it. They say it is mind over matter, which is somewhat true, but if you're like me, after half a dozen or so splats, you will probably want to go back to BAFing for the rest of the day. Anyway, stick with it and it will come. I recommend a helmet with some ear protection. As far as breaking boards and masts is concerned, I agree with Wind-NC, it is of course possible, but not a huge risk.

sm
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935

PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bred2shred wrote:
after half a dozen or so splats, you will probably want to go back to BAFing for the rest of the day ... As far as breaking boards and masts is concerned, I agree with Wind-NC, it is of course possible, but not a huge risk.

The likelihood is low, but risk -- likelihood times cost -- varies with one's budget, pain tolerance, skill, and luck. Sad

I hear ya on the splats. Because success was virtually guaranteed, I once tried a trick (definition: any canned unproductive maneuver done just for show or fun) hyped in a magazine. It said the boomerang*, if done by the book, was a sure thing. (The key word turned out to be "sure", as in SUUUUUURRRRE it is.) Smile

* Sparing the details, the idea is to throw the rig down at the water in a certain manner, whereupon it will magically return to your hands.

SUUUURRRE it does. SPLAT!

I'm not suggesting the OP fugheddaboutit. It really is "only water", so (probably) the worst he can do is split his sternum into two pieces or snap a board. All I am suggesting is to follow the advice for eardrum protection ... and add a helmet (I don't buy its momentum or drag scare, especially with a Gath), face guard, and rib armor. Each of those has saved me many partial or whole seasons of WSing even without trying inverted aerials. Even if they don't save any body parts for a particular individual, the confidence they impart should boost one's aggressiveness and success rate.
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3598

PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are new here so you may not know that Iso is the turd in the punch bowl on this site.
Many experienced posters here do not read his posts for that reason.
He claims to censor nearly all regular posters here.
If that is true he won't be insulted by this .
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boardsurfr



Joined: 23 Aug 2001
Posts: 1266

PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have taken lessons with both Matt Pritchard and Andy Brandt. Both great teachers. The difference in their approach to the loop comes from where they teach. Matt teaches on Maui - big wind, big waves. Andy teaches mostly on flat water - think Bonaire. On Maui, you can do an "endo" loop, where the board rotates vertically. On flat water, you need to rotate much more horizontally (unless you think sticking the mast in the bottom and hanging upside down from the board makes for a cool picture).

Andy has gotten dozens of windsurfers to try the loop exercises that are based on Remko's 4-step approach (with improvements by Andy). I have been in a bunch of clinics where a number of windsurfers tried. I did not see a single person get hurt. That's quite different from the old "just sheet in and look back" advice. I know several people who followed that advice, and ended up with broken ribs and similar. Of the people Andy has taught the loop, about 40 actually did learn it. I saw it happen in one camp, and know several other campers that completed loops during or shortly after an ABK camp. Some of them where older than 50. I am certain Matt has also taught a bunch of people to loop.

So, stick to the advice the other Andy (Wind-NC-Hatteras) has given, it's spot-on. I did try with the "throw yourself around the mast" exercise. Sure it helped me reduce my fear - but I ended up splitting the nose of my board within the first 10 or 20 attempts, despite a dual-density nose guard. In contrast, I have done the ABK/Remko sail-steering drills and loop attempts many times, without ever breaking anything or getting hurt. My only problem is that I'm too big a chicken to really pull the trigger when conditions are right...
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bonner



Joined: 17 May 2000
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A word of caution for those who will use a helmet when learning to loop. Make sure it fits really well and does not move at all. Maybe one of the new ones like Gath or something with padding in the front. Better yet, skip the helmet and have a death grip on the boom, never let go. You will for sure have a lot of back landings, and a hard splash on the back can shove a helmet forward on your head and bust your nose with the bill. Have seen it happen.

For me, looping was all about the fear. There are a million technical instructions and drills out there, but once you "will" yourself to commit and start coming around, the fear just goes away, then you can't stop!

Don't listen to the broken board, broken mast people. Its within your reach, If you want it, go for it!
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