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sail problem or pilot error?
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cgoudie1



Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 1197
Location: Killer Sturgeon Cove

PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just remember the key word here is "guide". it doesn't say rigging mandate.

-Craig

konajoe wrote:

Yes, I'll contact Sailworks. In the end, we'll all be better off if rigging guides get better/more complete.
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konajoe



Joined: 28 Feb 2010
Posts: 137

PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK. Let's try this again. Fraternal twins: 120 lb woman and her 200 lb brother. They have exactly the same approach to windsurfing. She rigs up a 5.0 mid spec. She has a gps, and records 25 kts every reach, as she beam reaches back and forth. All of a sudden, the wind picks up. But amazingly, the water condition/roughness stay exactly the same. Her brother, who weighs 80 lbs more, but is the exact same height, takes out the same rig on the same board without touching a thing. He beam reaches back and forth recording 25 kts, every run.

Someone has taken a picture of both of them doing 25 kts. Do you folks think that the rigs are going to look the same? I don't. I think the brother's picture is going to show the sail WAY more twisted off.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 13778

PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

konajoe wrote:
They have exactly the same approach to windsurfing.

That changes everything by removing the most important variable of all: personal preferences.


Last edited by isobars on Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5683

PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"All of a sudden, the wind picks up."


In more wind, the originally rigged sail will twist off more, regardless of who's using it. However, if the heavier brother slacks off on the downhaul to gain a bit more power, the sail will twist off less. Referring to the Sailworks tuning guide, you can see why this would be the case. Given the fact that the guide photos are taken less a boom, you really get to concentrate on the effects of downhaul. If you were to consider the addition of the boom, you would be able to the more subtle effects of outhaul adjustments using a fixed downhaul setting.
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pete1111



Joined: 16 Apr 2005
Posts: 136
Location: The Dude

PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

konajoe wrote:


Someone has taken a picture of both of them doing 25 kts. Do you folks think that the rigs are going to look the same? I don't. I think the brother's picture is going to show the sail WAY more twisted off.


Yah think !
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Sailboarder



Joined: 10 Apr 2011
Posts: 393

PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The poor sailmakers also have to make guides for a variety of conditions, that take into account many variables, including mast choice and tolerance, sail mfg tolerances etc... My understanding is that the sail guide will be in a generally safe zone that will also account for sail longevity. I don't expect anymore to have a rigging guide that explains me to put too much tension in my Kona sail battens, because I know it reduces it expected life. It sails so much better however!

Also, when good sailors helped me with tuning my sail, they never look at the rigging marks. They will look more at the belly shape and position, at the twist eveness, at the springiness, things like that. These are hard to explain by looking at the sail itself: I don't expect a few paragraphs in a rigging guide could even come close.
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frederick23



Joined: 24 Dec 2013
Posts: 372

PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My 2003 Retro tuning guide (see below), allows for 1 inch of outhaul to make the sail "flatter" in overpowered. Downhaul is also adjustable.

http://www.sailworks.com/pdfs/retro_rigger.pdf

The sail I was using was a 7.5 Gaastra GTX (2003) in the original post. Yesterday I sailed it with more downhaul, less outhaul and it worked much better. Not as overpowered as the last time I used it, but a great day for me yesterday on Lake Michigan in a 1 hour window of gusts. The rest of the day was calm.

Thanks for your help.
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zirtaeb



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 2277

PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

120 vs 200 lbs sailor, just this alone....
200 lbs sailor, same skill level, goes 3 mph faster than 120 lbs sailor. Each and every run.
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