myiW Current Conditions and Forecasts Community Forums Windsurfing Videos Buy and Sell Services
 
Hi guest · myAccount · Log in
 SearchSearch   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   RegisterRegister 
Need help understanding my sails
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    iWindsurf Community Forum Index -> Windsurfing Discussion
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
bse



Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 10:23 am    Post subject: Need help understanding my sails Reply with quote

I am fairly new to the sport (just a year) and I have two different sails that I use with my Fanatic Viper 180.

    6.5M Chinook Powerglide (design by Ezzy for what that's worth) with chinook 460 RDM mast.
    9.5M Ezzy Cheetah with 490 Ezzy RDM mast.


What i've come to find is that I rarely if ever want to use the 6.5M... Compared to the Cheetah it feels like i'm sailing with a piece of plywood. When trying to go upwind, it tries to go all the way in to the wind. It seems like my Cheetah responds much more nicely and comfortably making it a lot easier to find that comfortable zone where I can maximize my upwind angle (I'm not afraid to explore that region of upwind, since I know it won't suddenly send me into a lull.) The 6.5M also seems like it doesn't shed wind much, I usually have to sail in pretty gusty conditions and the 6.5 seems like it's always whipping back and forth, much more so that the 9.5M. (admittedly, the only times I'm going to rig the 6.5 is if the winds are much higher, so that's part of it, but not all of it) In my limited experience with other sails/rigs/boards, I find most of them behave to me like the 6.5M, but they've all been smaller than 6.5M. The 9.5 almost feels like it has shock absorbers, making it much more manageable. I'd really have to be in winds higher than ~25MPH before I'd rig my 6.5 over the 9.5M and that just doesn't seem right (and since I'm still a noob, a bit on the unsafe side, it's hard to pull up a 9.5 in a tornado!)

So... my questions:

    *Is it the way I've rigged them? I fully admit I'm not the best at rigging, but i've got the basic concept that a bit of softness at the top should help let off the big gusts. Is it possible that I just need rig the 6.5 better than I have been?
    * Is there something else I can adjust, like fin (I use the stock fin for the 6.5 and a 54 cm fin for the 9.5M) or the mast position?
    * if I were to get a smaller Cheetah for faster winds, would I have the same issue? (maybe smaller sails are just stiffer in general?)
    * I assume that the masts are roughly equivalent for flex, is that a bad assumption? (for what it's worth, there is a night and day difference in quality of the mast, of course the ezzy mast was a few bucks more)

I apologize if any of my explanations are vague, I haven't really caught on to a lot of the sailing lingo!

Thanks!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14321

PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Over the decades, the word that first came to my mind in describing the feel of a sail that has insufficient downhaul is "plywood".

In addition, my first reaction to anyone new enough to have to ask "Is my saiil downhauled enough?", without reading any further, is ,"No", because it's a pretty sound assumption that anyone who has to ask that question is not downhauled enough.

Third ... if you need over 25 mph ON THE WATER to plane with a 6.5, weigh less than 500 pounds, and are on a board over 60 liters, you need some lessons, as something is very wrong.

Fourth, your unfamiliarity with the lingo implies you are trying to figure this sport out on your own. If so, you will waste unnecessary YEARS in the process. Videos, books, tutorials and lessons would be helpful beyond your imagination, especially in revealing the OTHER 238 questions you need to be asking.

Mike \m/


Last edited by isobars on Wed Jun 04, 2014 2:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Brian.bigfella@gmail.com



Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To echo what iso is saying, buy this video:

http://www.amazon.com/Beginner-to-Winner-Windsurfing-DVD/dp/B001SU9G8I/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1401902355&sr=8-1&keywords=beginner+to+winner+windsurfing

I'm 303 pounds, fully dressed, as of this morning. My sail breakdown is this:

9.5m - 15-18
8.5m - 17-20 (my favorite sail, btw)
7.5m - 19-24
6.5m - 24-30ish

Board and fin matter. Also, I can get my 7.5 going in 17 but it's edgy. I can ride my 9.5 (which is a Lion with cams) in 25 when it's rigged tight, but it's no fun at all. My 8.5 and 7.5 are both Cheetahs and are my favorite sails, bar none.

The Powerglide is a relatively baggy beginner sail that's not really made for higher wind sailing. A 6.5 Cheetah will have the same give as your 9.5. My 6.5 is a Legend and it's a blast to sail. It will also have more range. A "normal" sized person should be able to sail a 6.5 in around 20 or less.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bse



Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isobar: First off, I appreciate the response, but please ditch the negativity. Not all of us have been in the sport a lifetime and live in an area with plenty of experienced & friendly windsurfers (or classes) to learn from. The best videos and books can't always explain some subtleties like rigging very well, or at least I haven't found them yet (and I've seen a few).

I have no problem planing with either sail, that's not at all what I was asking about. Planing isn't the be all/end all of my windsurfing session. It's about the feel of the sails, and how they respond to various conditions. Quite simply the 9.5m is more enjoyable than the 6.5m even in conditions where I should be picking the smaller sail, and I'm trying to explain how they feel and understand why they are that way.

Insofar as rigging and downhauling, you might be right. I rig both of the sails in a similar way, yet one feels much nicer to me than the other. Maybe smaller sails need more downhaul? I will give it a shot, though I've had similar opinions about the few other small sails i've tried that were rigged by people other than myself.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bse



Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brian.bigfella@gmail.com wrote:
To echo what iso is saying, buy this video:

http://www.amazon.com/Beginner-to-Winner-Windsurfing-DVD/dp/B001SU9G8I/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1401902355&sr=8-1&keywords=beginner+to+winner+windsurfing


Thanks Brian - I have that video and i've watched it a few times, though not recently. Perhaps I need to review it again. I think your sail ranges are exactly where I would expect mine to be (assuming I had that many!) It is perplexing to me that they're not. (hence my questions!)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
beaglebuddy



Joined: 10 Feb 2012
Posts: 710

PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps you could post a picture of this 6.5 in question when it's rigged.
Take a picture of the sail lying on the ground with the camera angle from the clew looking towards the top of the sail. The experts will be able to tell if it's got the correct DH, OH or batten tension.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14321

PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bse wrote:
Isobar: First off, I appreciate the response, but please ditch the negativity.

Sorry, guy, but I just offered you hundreds of man-years of collective observations and advice, often expressed explicitly by many sailors here. Whether you want to listen is your call, but your opinion of that body of knowledge as "negativity" does not bode well for you.

bse wrote:
Not all of us have been in the sport a lifetime ...

Exactly. Ignore the lifers at your own peril.

bse wrote:
and live in an area with plenty of experienced & friendly windsurfers (or classes) to learn from.

I'll assume that's a joke. My first decade of sailing was primarily in Utah and New Mexico, where no one I knew could jibe when I was trying to figure it out and from which I had three options for lessons beyond "This is called a windsurfer": Drive 900 miles to Corpus Christi, drive 1300 miles to the Gorge, and fly to Maui. I did all three expressly for lessons, and found bupkus back then.

bse wrote:
The best videos and books can't always explain some subtleties like rigging very well, or at least I haven't found them yet (and I've seen a few).

Thus our collective, resounding, frequent advice to BUY SOME PROFESSIONAL LESSONS AT ANY COST ... including rigging if necessary. I sent a two-page list of lesson objectives and a blank check for a solid week of all-day private lessons to a Corpus instructor in advance before driving there for our scheduled week. She didn't show up.

bse wrote:
It's about the feel of the sails

Which is exactly what my opening post addressed.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bigwave65



Joined: 12 Oct 2010
Posts: 32
Location: Lake Erie

PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bse- ignore the blabber of superior ones that know it all, rig that Chinook to the specs that are stated on the sail then crank it a little more -downhaul & outhaul -past that, I always like my stuff a little more pegged than the recommended specs. Have fun, experiment around with it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
d0uglass



Joined: 28 May 2004
Posts: 1084
Location: Bonita Springs, Florida

PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi bse,

The Chinook Powerglide sail is meant to be lightweight and easy to use for beginners in light winds.

It doesn't have the right shape, contour, and tension pattern to be stable in strong wind.

That said, you might be able to make it a little more stable by:

1. Adding more downhaul to increase the amount of twist-off at the head of the sail.
2. Maybe reducing the amount of outhaul a bit, because if you outhaul too hard the sail will be flat and will feel "twitchy."
3. Increasing the batten tension to remove wrinkles along the batten pockets and add a more firmly curved "profile" to the sail.
4. Making sure the boom and mast base are not under- or overextended. You should tweak them so that there's no more than an inch of line leftover between the cleat and the sail grommet when the sail is properly tensioned.

Ultimately, you'll probably want to sell the powerglide and replace it with a normal sail of similar size. A 6.5 - 7.5 Cheetah would work well.

-James

_________________
James' Blog: Windsurfing Equipment Size Calculator
http://jimbodouglass.blogspot.com/2010/11/updated-windsurf-calculator-online.html
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
bse



Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks to all, even the 'get off my lawn' isobar's advice will be taken to heart.

James, Beagle, Bigwave and Brian... thanks for the simple and straightforward answers without putting me down for trying to learn as much as I can, through whatever sources I can!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    iWindsurf Community Forum Index -> Windsurfing Discussion All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Page 1 of 5

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You can attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum

myiW | Weather | Community | Membership | Support | Log in
like us on facebook
© Copyright 1999-2007 WeatherFlow, Inc Contact Us Ad Marketplace

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group