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coboardhead
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 4303
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 Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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Frederick
When I left the city I moved to a small, but very, untrendy, cow town. Still have a house there. We again bought a house on the "wrong side of the tracks" built in the twenties and set out to "gentrify" that neighborhood.
Part of that involved building a new garage. My buddy, who lived several blocks away wanted the old one. So, one weekend we backed a trailer into the old garage, jacked it up on cross beams, and headed down the road...crossing a State Highway...where the truck died mid-intersection. No permits...no license. Whoops! Finally got the truck going after half dozen signal light iterations. |
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pointster
Joined: 22 Jul 2010
Posts: 376
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| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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| isobars wrote: | | Rural culture ... West ... doesn't matter to me. What matters is the Constitution, personal choices (very few towns REQUIRE people to buy guns and there are plenty of laws forbidding their misuse), the right to defend one's self, etc., and the fact that many on the Left want to deny us all those. |
I agree with former Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stevens who proposes that the 2nd amendment should be amended as follows:
“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms when serving in the Militia shall not be infringed.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-five-extra-words-that-can-fix-the-second-amendment/2014/04/11/f8a19578-b8fa-11e3-96ae-f2c36d2b1245_story.html |
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935
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| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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| If ya don't like guns, don't buy one. Problem solved. |
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uwindsurf
Joined: 18 Aug 2012
Posts: 968
Location: Classified
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| Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 12:14 am Post subject: |
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| coboardhead wrote: | | youwindsurf wrote: | | coboardhead wrote: | Youwindsurf
Your "quip" was directed at my comment. Therefore me. If you want efforts at gun control to have a chance legislatively, reducing my opinion to "quips" like this will not advance this agenda. Folks like me, in the middle on the issue, are the key.
No, I have not donated to gun control efforts financially...too many extreme positions in the opposition. What I did do, was buy, fix up, and live in an old house in a lower middle class (and mixed race) neighborhood when my wife was out of residency and I was out of grad school. I felt it was more effective to get my hands dirty than sit in a middle class, latte drinking, Prius commuting suburb. One cannot effect change by telling people what to do. One of the root causes of the violence in this country is the abandonment of our inner cities.
I did cancel my NRA membership about 10 years ago and told them why.
I did support the politicians that passed the gun control legislation in Colo. E-mailed their office. |
Your membership to the NRA made you part of the problem. You will have to do a lot more than gentrify your neighborhood and email some legislators to atone for your past sins.
It must be a high horse you sit upon to look down on the middle class, latte drinking, Prius commuting suburbanites - those same "middle" people you claim will be the solution to the problem.
Sometimes it takes a ridiculous example to demonstrate how foolish a position can be. That is the purpose of my quip - to demonstrate how absolutely ridiculous it is to believe that any person should have the right to possess a gun anywhere at any time. Once you agree that this is a ridiculous position, then the discussion of reasonable restrictions can begin. Apparently, this was lost on you. If this offends you and/or the hard core 2nd Amendment folks, I don't care.
Guns for all, all for guns, all the time. |
I do not really want to continue hashing out an issue where I have no idea what your point is. But, I think you missed my point. That is that when you...apparently, maybe not, I don't know...respond to my post, with what appears to be ridicule, by presenting an extreme position as my opinion, it is an all too familiar stereotypical liberal response. My "quip" about the latte drinking, big city suburbanites, is how many rural folks view "your kind"...true or not.
Mac hit the nail on the head. Guns and rural lifestyles, in the West, are integral. I learned to shoot at eight, got my first rifle at twelve, spent many weekends with buddies shooting. The NRA sponsored my first gun safety class which allowed me to go hunting with my family (yeah...my Mom was into decorative masculinity too back then...though,at 80, she can probably still kick some big city "gym-fit" weenie's ass). Many of us continued to support the NRA because of this history.
Defining that support as being "part of the problem" continues to reinforce my opinion that you may not really have an understanding of the rural culture around guns and gun rights.
If you want to start a discussion on gun control with folks with my history, you do not start with an extreme position to show now "ridiculous" an argument can be. You start with discussing who is being killed, and why, and work towards a solution to the problem...not direct blame.
Look...I support many gun control efforts. But, overzealous antigun liberals will derail that goal. Over-reaching on gun control in Colorado resulted in the recall of two of the more powerful Democrats. This may result in a Blue-Red switch in Colorado this fall. Hmmm...who really is part of the problem. |
"Stereotypical liberal response"? "My kind"? "Rural culture"? Kind of presumptuous don't you think? I live in Idaho. I have a pretty good understanding of rural culture and conservatism.
Who is being killed? Anyone and everyone. Who is doing the killing? People with guns. There is no segment of the population that is immune from either category. What are the common denominators? People and guns. I am all for a discussion of the issues, but how does that information help to solve the problem? It does not.
As you know, Colrado passed two gun control laws: one imposing universal background checks on gun purchases and one limiting most ammunition magazines to 15 rounds. It is those laws which resulted in two recalls and one resignation of State legislators.
Now really, were these laws so draconian so as to warrant the recall of two legislators? No. So why were they recalled? Because the gun lobby worked the citizens into a frenzy and convinced them that the gub'ment was out to git thar guns and take away thar rights! As Forrest Gump said: "Stupid is as stupid does".
You may disagree with me, but I am of the opinion that you can't discuss the middle until you have found the edges and tip toeing around an issue seldom leads to a solution. If that makes me a problem in your eyes, so be it.
So, under the 2nd Amendment I should be able to possess an RPG? How 'bout a Thermo-nuclear missile? Them be arms, right? |
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MalibuGuru
Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 9300
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| Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 2:38 am Post subject: |
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It was not the gun lobby who recalled those politicians. You liberals think that just because the NRA puts money into a campaign that the "Sheeple" will follow blindly.
Guess what? PEOPLE DON'T LIKE LOSING THEIR RIGHTS! Regardless of how much money is spent. |
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KGB-NP
Joined: 25 Jul 2001
Posts: 2856
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| Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 5:41 am Post subject: |
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| coboardhead wrote: | | So, one weekend we backed a trailer into the old garage, jacked it up on cross beams, and headed down the road...crossing a State Highway...where the truck died mid-intersection. No permits...no license. Whoops! Finally got the truck going after half dozen signal light iterations. |
CB,
You guys had balls! In my time I've bought a couple of houses, mostly small bungalows, slated for demolition off of developers and had them moved onto infill lots and then renovate to sell. Getting the moving permits was always a hold up in the process.
| isobars wrote: | | If ya don't like guns, don't buy one. Problem solved. |
Really? If only it was so simple. Solved for who? The people who think they are "entitled" to have one, or those who get shot by them? Not problem solved, but problem continues. |
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J64TWB
Joined: 24 Dec 2013
Posts: 1685
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| Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 7:48 am Post subject: |
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Iso, the way I look at it, I have the right not to get shot.
My odds are 1 in 340. My problem is not solved.
6 more shot last night here. Some guy just fired into a strip mall hitting 2 teenagers and 4 adults just trying to go to the laundromat. What about their right not to get shot? |
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techno900
Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 4161
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| Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 8:39 am Post subject: |
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Fredrick23 said: | Quote: | | My odds are 1 in 340. My problem is not solved. |
Assuming this is correct over a lifetime, I think the odds vary considerably depending on your lifestyle, behavior, your friends and where you choose to live.
For some, the odds are pretty much 1 in 10,000,000 and for others, it's likely 1 in 3. Not everyone has control of their environment, but if it is important enough, one can live without any fear of being shot, even if they have their own weapons. |
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935
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| Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 9:10 am Post subject: |
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| reinerehlers wrote: |
Really? If only it was so simple. Solved for who? The people who think they are "entitled" to have one, or those who get shot by them? Not problem solved, but problem continues. |
Wrong. The problem is criminal behavior, not tools. If one takes the bible at face value, Caine slew one fourth of the world's population eons before the first gun. |
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J64TWB
Joined: 24 Dec 2013
Posts: 1685
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| Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 9:32 am Post subject: |
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| My sister in laws brother, wife and 14yr. Old niece died by bullets. It has destroyed that family. |
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