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In search of bigger shortboard for lighter Gorge conditions
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zirtaeb



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 2444

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What do the vids prove?
I sailed with a Frenchman who had the prototype SeaLion, here in BerkeleyCa. about 3 years ago. The chop was a bit of a bother for him, but he sailed pretty decently considering it was in winds of 17-26mph with fair high tide chop. He went OK, maybe 3 mph off the pace.
I said the fish tail would not be my choice for a wave riding SUP/windsurf board. I like the outline of the JPYoungGun126, at 78 wide.
Haven't ridden it in surf yet, but might try this coming weekend. Currently, the surf is "4-7'", according to Surfline, about top of mast height for you non surfers.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14602

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zirtaeb wrote:
What do the vids prove?

The board's capabilities. Getting there is up to me, as some people can make barn doors do anything. One of the videos, though, showed scores of people doing great things with them, giving me hope.
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mat-ty



Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 1090

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This has to be one of the fastest growing and content rich threads to date(on iwindsurf). Nice to see people lovin iso....hope you have a great season..
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zirtaeb



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 2444

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seems to me, all those vids prove is that a SUP can work in dead flat water, speed trials conditions.
Is the Gorge dead flat water?
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rlemmens



Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Posts: 189

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

was it Braz or Rush Randle or someone else who had a similar injury (maybe) but wore velcro booties and had velcro pads on his boards? That may not actually help but I remember reading that somewhere but can't remember specifics. Maybe he broke his foot or something.
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beaglebuddy



Joined: 10 Feb 2012
Posts: 720

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 3:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't be worried about transporting a long board, I had an 18' SUP that I hauled around on top of a Toyota Camry no problem at all.
What I don't like about the sea lion is the US fin box, forget about really big fins for light wind planing. Exocet windsup has a powerbox.
From what I understand a fish tail is for surfing, while on a wave one tail can be in the water and one side out thus making the board seem smaller.
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beaglebuddy



Joined: 10 Feb 2012
Posts: 720

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 3:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have read about a lot of people using a SUP to rehab an injury, if you haven't SUPed before it's really a different balancing dynamic than WSing which is mostly balancing against the pull of the sail while SUPing is a 360 degree balancing act, when it gets rough or choppy the legs are pumping up and down like pistons and can get a really good workout not to mention what it does for the upper body with the paddling and the midsection with the balancing act.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14602

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

zirtaeb wrote:
Seems to me, all those vids prove is that a SUP can work in dead flat water, speed trials conditions.
Is the Gorge dead flat water?

Many venues have flat water available even when it's very windy; most are so flat they're boring when I'd use a 7.0, even a 6.2 if the wind's inconsistent. I also plan to take this baby to the coast, where counting on wind is a crapshoot. Additionally, you obviously didn't catch the wave-sailing/SUPing videos.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14602

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

beaglebuddy wrote:
I wouldn't be worried about transporting a long board, I had an 18' SUP that I hauled around on top of a Toyota Camry no problem at all.
What I don't like about the sea lion is the US fin box, forget about really big fins for light wind planing. Exocet windsup has a powerbox.
From what I understand a fish tail is for surfing, while on a wave one tail can be in the water and one side out thus making the board seem smaller.

Yes, I'd be very concerned about trying to use a 7.0, or even a fully powered 6.2, with a single A-box fin. Two fins, though, spread the load (oops; except when up on one rail), and it's not going to be jumped (no straps). And given its width and low top end (low 20s, mph), I don't expect to sail it wound up; as many here have suggested, the plan is to work any available terrain with finesse rather than power, as I do now with sinkers during relative lulls. The difference I'm hoping for is a downshift of 10 mph in my planable wind profile while maintaining high maneuverability.

Close examination of the videos show the board slogging up to a little bitty wave, then with a single sail pump and good timing popping onto a plane when no one else is planing and there isn't a whitecap to be seen. Someone mentioned that a longer board transitions more smoothly between planing and displacement, but "smoothly" also means "slowly". On a knee- or thigh-high passing swell, I ain't got time for "slowly"; it's now or never. Pump, drop the nose a tad down the swell, ooch, and away ya go ... for several turns or just one, as the board planes, loses the plane, planes again, etc. DTL in the ocean or across the river, depending on the power level and skill.

Jurg sez, the videos support, and my SeaLion bud agrees that the board's drag when not planing is so slight that it very quickly transitions from slog (i.e., not planing) to plane given a small boost in power or slope. In what looks like VERY light breezes in some of the videos, you'll see the board switching often between gliding and planing with each turn on a bump not even thigh-high ... something we can sometimes find around here in breezes too light for me to enjoy my present gear. I get worried when dying winds catch me a mile or three downriver on a 115 and a 6.2, but a hull with greater planing power, a bigger sail well known for tons of low end power, and a more responsive mast than I normally use, those excursions may become less hazardous. Unless, of course, the wind goes nuts rather than flat. I wonder how well this thing will handle 30 mpg average wind running very deep offwind, as happened last time I was 3 miles upwind with a 6.2. There's are reasons I don't run the Gorge Blowout, and they include sanity and a dislike of pain. Smile

That aspect of the fishtail appeals to me. If I wanted to go straight, I'd get big boxy rails, a 40 cm fin, zero rocker, and something
SIXTEEN FREAKING FEET long. Very Happy

But I'd hate to have it fastened to the top of my Subaroo rushing to Roosevelt in winds of 30 gusting to 50 from multiple directions.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14602

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And speaking of 40 cm fins ... I'd sure rather crank quick rail to rail transitions on two 25 cm fins than one 40 cm fin.

I'm looking for something DiphErrEnT, not just bigger, as long as those differences support enough objectives to make the gamble worthwhile. All these points and counter points you guys are bringing up help certainly give me pause, but also help me think things through. This wouldn't be the first dud I've talked myself into, but it also wouldn't be the first time I've gone against the grain with great results.
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