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In search of bigger shortboard for lighter Gorge conditions
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windoggie



Joined: 22 Feb 2002
Posts: 2406

PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14319

PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jfeehan wrote:
I haven't read the whole thread ...

Smarter than the average bear, huh?

jfeehan wrote:
but i'm not sure I agree with your approach.

You and several other ACL veterans ... every one, IIRC. I'd better pay attention.

jfeehan wrote:
I had one of those custom carbon braces - i used it the first day, and have never used it since.

That gives me pause, too. No matter who pays for it, I don't want to waste money on it. Its purpose is to do nothing until something tries to force the knee outside its safe ROM; heck, we wouldn't even be having this conversation if I had been wearing a pair of them preemptively last July 4th. Was yours too much of a PITA, or did you just consider it unnecessary?

jfeehan wrote:
I really don't agree that sailing a short board without footstraps is going to be safer than just sailing in the footstraps and being careful.

My concern is that being careful and never falling strapped in are not correlated 100%. The thought of re-injuring this knee even worse makes my skin crawl.

jfeehan wrote:
the idea of sailing a 125L board with a 7.0, presumably in planing conditions, without the straps is nuts - I see you slipping and not really being able to control the board ..

It surely sounds that way, but the videos and friends' experience say otherwise. MUCH depends on how much strength, agility, and trust I can develop by the time I choose a board and/or get on the water. I feel very fortunate to have found a PT with very extensive training and experience in ACLs and athletes.

jfeehan wrote:
If you really don't want to use footstraps, and just want to do easy sailing - get a longboard or Wind-SUP and go out for some non-planing cruising.

I'm hoping THAT level of masochism won't be required.

jfeehan wrote:
But, if you are going to be sailing in planing conditions, I think you will be safer in the straps ...

... until the crash. My surgeon liked my analogy of a small hammer lightly tapping a wine glass: tap ... tap ... tap ... TINKLE.

jfeehan wrote:
I would try to rig so I was comfortably powered, but not overpowered, and make a deliberate effort to pick a smooth path through the chop.

That's the plan. The problems are gusts and discipline.

Thanks, Jeff.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14319

PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

windoggie wrote:
...

I hear that, Windoggie. For $10 I can't go wrong with that approach. It is still high on my list of options.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14319

PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another ACL patient, with first-hand experience counter to my strapless hypothesis and SeaLion option, wrote:

The Sealion is for waves, not chop or running a sail up to 7M, which will overpower the relatively short fins. Also these boards, as most SUP’s, don’t plane or plane easily, are primarily designed to catch the wave, secondly to windsurf. It is a great SUP, slogging and spinny tricks board or a great learner, due to its width it does not slash tightly but surfs great. It does plane as opposed to most SUP’s but similarly to a 110L board and takes effort and overpowered midrange sails to keep it there. It washes out at anything bigger than a 5.5m when juiced, but you can slog with a 7 no problem in very light winds.

I have had ACL reconstruction and not having footstraps?? IMHO does little to preserve your new repair….whose idea was that? [Oops; mine] In fact I would suggest the opposite it true where you could fall back onto your heel and re-injure the site again or hyper-extend your leg when catching yourself as you get thrown forward BECAUSE you have no straps….[makes sense!]. I would recommend avoidance or just plain slogging and be happy to be on the water in the sun.

My biggest re-injury to the ACL was tripping on a stair while going up and then collapsing onto the ankle…bam…pain like never before. [Much will depend on how my knee responds to a whole new regimen of dynamic training.]*

Haven’t tried the 8-3 and having said all this I no longer carry AHD.


* Please understand that while I hope this thread will help me, I also hope it will offer ideas and opinions useful to anyone else with injuries or just looking for new facets of WSing. You'll see in my next post why I make that very last comment.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14319

PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I spoke with Jurg of WindsurfDeals, who carries SeaLions. He's really stoked about them, as is a customer who bought some for his extended family. Jurg sez ...

1. Planes extremely early given nudges from a piece of chop/swell + a pump + proper foot placement, then stays on a plane extremely easily.

2. A 7.0 should be compatible with the 8'3" as long as the sail's not too powered up, and even powered up if I put on bigger fins.

3. The thing glides so well that you barely feel the forward pull that, on an ordinary board, would yank you forward (not fun with a new ACL) towards the nose if not in straps.

4. Can turn very tightly even when barely planing, if at all, with proper foot placement on the appropriate tail.

5. Can provide a dynamic experience even on calf-high terrain just because it planes and carves so well.

6. Actually SUPs very well.

7. And slogs in a balanced fashion.

8. This thing sounds like it has much more potential for giggles than most boards in its displacement range, even for a slogophobe like me, in 5-15 mph winds, and even remains fun when there are gusts into the 20s on hand. Right now I can't even plane consistently on my 6.2 and 114L Syncro until Roosevelt's averaging 21. It sounds like this board will actually be fun, dynamic, and maybe even planing fairly often in 5-15 mph winds given any swell to boost it (e.g., during long lulls after a better breeze), especially if I add a very powerful 7.0 to it for the really pitiful days. It also sounds effortless to slog home on when 5-15 turns into 3-5, or to slog out on when there's 15 mph beginning 500 meters offshore and only 5 mph inside that line.

This board sounds (and looks in videos) like a whole new venture, rather than just a bigger same-old. The idea of wandering around that big deck looking for different sweet spots for different objectives sounds like fun; if it also planes in an assisted whiff and maneuvers in the process, where's the downside in light air?

Sure, Jurg sells them, but my bud agrees with him.
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cgoudie1



Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 1278
Location: Killer Sturgeon Cove

PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Something you might consider is that the motion of a water start with your
injured leg in front up on the board puts serious stress right on your ACL as
you pull the board under you.

I might suggest that you always water start with your uninjured leg as the
one up on the board. It will be a little awkward when it's your back leg, but
you get used to it pretty quickly.

-Craig
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 4228

PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Iso, it is a well known fact that Exocet boards are the easiest on your knees because of their superior deck padding and shock absorber. They make a 111 wave board, and have a Wind-SUP that is very cost effective. The problem with the Wind-SUP, the Sea Lion, or any other combo board is they are much heavier. This is not good on your knees. Whereas the X Wave 111 will give you the float, padding with built in shock absorber, great turning, and half the weight of any combo board. They also make the Cross model in many sizes.
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frederick23



Joined: 24 Dec 2013
Posts: 436

PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can you find a offshore site with flat water to sail? Thigh high chop without footstraps sounds miserable. Calm water, lighter conditions, use footstraps (at times), take it easy for a Summer and enjoy just being out? Nothing wrong with that.
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 3078
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

umm I think the Sea Lion may be a nice option, any cost comparison to the Exocet boards ?
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5888

PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For those sailors worried about injuries from using footstraps, I would suggest sailing with just your toes in the straps. That's how I sail, and I've never really had a problem releasing from my straps. And, I should point out that always use booties too. It's a technique that has lots of benefits, and very little downside.
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