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Another pow wow on the 'ol muti fin versus single
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poussin



Joined: 14 Sep 2000
Posts: 158

PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:33 am    Post subject: Another pow wow on the 'ol muti fin versus single Reply with quote

Hey Everybody,

So.....not to beat a dead horse or anything, but.........
now that more time has passed with more multi fin boards out there,
I thought it would be high time to re-visit the subject.

Seems pretty clear that the quads are good in the waves, but what about the tri fins in bump and jump?

The new Fanatic freewaves in the smaller sizes, as well as other companies
with their freestyle wave boards are offering the option of tri wave with the option of running them single or tri seems to be the new standard.

So....back to bump and jump with the occasional big swell days...is it worth
the hype to go tri fin?

From what I gather, people who sail the gorge on big days with bi-ass swell
seem to like the tri fin set up, but what about Crissy or Third Ave on big days.......to tri fin or not to tri fin?.....that is the question my friends.

What say you all?

Greg
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 3056
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Been on my production Witchcraft for 4 years, I have sailed it single ONCE.
Most who have tris use them that way, I only recall the Tabou Pocket Wave being better single, and only in B & J

Iam working on my 5th tri fin conversion. HYPE is referred to as a clever marketing strategy, IMO tris work great. You will notice that quite a lot of companies now have them, where brands like Quatro and Fantatic went from twins to quads.

I sail in HR, Rio Vista , Texas and Hatteras, mostly sound. SO not a big wave rider, at 100L and below multi fins are the way to go. Quads work best in waves, but can be used for B&J.

With most mulit fins, you will encounter more drag, more fins more area, so slower planing and less top speed, if absolute early planing and speed are your forte, go SINGLE.

Fins have gotten lighter, more sophisticated with inside foils, and placement in the way of toe in, so they are refining the negative above.

The tri fin offered a firmly planed ride, great upwind,( more area ) and really responsive turns, the character can be change to a looser, twin like feel, by altering the fin size, 3 close to the same size makes it really skatey.

a fast rocker on a tri would make a great board

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gerritt



Joined: 06 May 1998
Posts: 410
Location: Redwood City, CA

PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm now on my second generation Quatro LS quad - renamed the Cube for 2014, which is purely a marketing move. The shapes, however, are solid. The newer LS shape has a flatter rocker and double concaves down the length. Concaves equal smoother, more planted ride. Mine is a 78, replacing my older 75 LS. Its faster, turns just as well, and gives me just that much more float to get me out in very marginal wind conditions.

I still have kept my two bigger single fin boards. I ride waves and the bay, mostly 3rd, but all over.

Here's my take: for wind below 20, single fins are still better, unless you are in waves, or the water is setting up some swell. For flatter faster water, single fins are better, since they have better top end. The quads (and I assume the tri-fins) plane off at slower speeds and keep planning at slower speeds, which is nice in the waves and what you need to catch them. The upwind of a single vs. quad is about equal for a swept back single fin. A straighter deeper single fin can't be beat for upwind and for speed. The speed on the newer Quatros is better than the old, since the rocker is now straighter and Keith is relying on the outline more to keep the turning ability. Fin settings, as previously mentioned, make a big difference in how the boards respond. Don't forget footstrap settings either, they also make a difference, as does mast base placement.

I have not ridden the really big quads or try-fins. There were designed with the idea of getting the big boys out in lighter wind in the waves, so I'm not sure I'd like one vs. my single on a light wind, flat water day on the bay. If I wanted a big board for very light wind wave days and I was also a freestyler (I don't consider myself freestyle proficient), I'd probably seriously consider one of the big multi-fin boards. Lots of guys are pulling spin moves on the multi-fins, since its easy to weight the nose and clear the shorter fins.

Bottom line - get you ass on some demo boards and see what you like.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 13826

PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When doing whatever you want to do with just one fin, are ya spinning out? If not, you don't need more. And even if you are spinning out, a better single fin may make all the difference. One step further ... if you want and try things but can't do them (besides tricks beyond your present ability), the question still remains ... is it hull shape, fin quality/size/shape, skills, or fin count that's holding you back?

Bottom line: what gear are you on and what are you trying to do that it won't do? You might achieve your near term goals with nothing more than a technique tip or a $100.

And why just tri? That's just one of many configurations.

Mike \m/
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westender



Joined: 02 Aug 2007
Posts: 612
Location: Portland / Gorge

PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On some boards you can put extra fins on or take them off to experiment. Then you'll know.
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Bullroarer_Took



Joined: 10 Apr 2000
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hate my tri on a flood and so take out the thrusters, but on an ebb... Ohh baby! It's heaven.
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xander.arch



Joined: 23 Apr 2009
Posts: 172

PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All good advice here! I'll add ...

I've been sailing a tri fin 12 / 14 setup in the waves. This setup moves towards the balanced side (equal size fronts and rears) of the tri fin equation with a fin area of about 285cm which is equal to area of the quad setup that I use on the same board (five boxes).

This setup is great for the waves with an incredible bottom turn and a gougy top turn. Though I do prefer the top turn of a quad which is looser and easier to redirect. The problem with the more balanced setup being that they are not nearly as good going upwind as a quad or single. The balanced tri fin is also pretty draggy compared to a single - but better than a quad.

With that said, its my opinion that a tri fin can be a great tool for ripping swell, but probably best with small thin profile fronts and a larger rear. This would give you most of the upwind and jumping performance of a single and most of the turning performance of a balanced tri. Maybe something like 9cm fronts and a 17 or 18cm rear would be best for all round bump and jump on a 80l board.
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noshuzbluz



Joined: 18 May 2000
Posts: 771

PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
but what about the tri fins in bump and jump?

Open Oceans are made primarily for BnJ. Alot different from others with the toe in and cant. Here's a clip from the website.

Tri-fin boards, now in their 20th year, thrive in high wind applications. Brian's Tri-fin concept is different from the traditional Tri-fin because the side fins are set at an angle of 20. This important feature distinguishes Open Ocean as the only Tri-fin on the market with this 20 angle.

This angle reduces drag, produces lift, enhances early planning, adds control in high wind, choppy conditions and improves upwind ability. It also allows harder, tighter turns and overall, produces more efficient trim to your board for high-wind control and early-planing ease. No other board carries these features.
Everybody knows that side fins create drag. BUT, power overcomes drag, and in high-wind sailing there is lots of power. You can only go as fast as the speed you can comfortably control. Sailing in strong wind, and rough and bumpy conditions isn't about being efficient. It's about how much power you can hang on to and with more control, the more power you can apply. In high-wind sailing you have design and you have ability. And with the best ability one always needs design.

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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 3056
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

derekcoon wrote:
I hate my tri on a flood and so take out the thrusters, but on an ebb... Ohh baby! It's heaven.


this is opposite of the way I would think, for the flood, I would want more area to go upwind on the way back. If its not powered up, I think that no fin configuration would be happy there. Its so common that the walk of shame is not really a fair description there, its SOP.

The OO boards seem to have a cult like following, the angle on the fins towards the rails is cant.

The difference between twins, tris, several variations, and quads , seem to escape some posters here, linking all fins with more than ONE in the same classification.

Apparent that they haven ridden these, instead its my theory that..........

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Number-nine



Joined: 09 Aug 1989
Posts: 353
Location: cape cod

PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I mostly sail in waves so a big fan of multi fins

Did a tri fin conversion on JP RWW 76 l in 2010 made a big difference in the boards ability to turn. I ride with really small fins. 12 cm thrusters and 18 cm center. have not noticed a big change in overall performance but I really only use this board with a 4.2m sail so generally riding with a lot of power. So this overcomes any drag. but small fins also helps

Bought Fanatic Quad 86 in 2012 this was a 2nd generation shape I think.
Quick to plane but not a fast board. Love it in the surf. Feels slow in flat water or b&j. does not have the same drive off the fin or pop of a single fin board for jumping so not that good as an all around board. I have seen some ride as a twin to help performance in B&J conditions but too lazy to try.

Bought 2013 quatro 110 l quad this is my light wind go to board for 5.3 5.7 m wind and side off. This board feels smaller on the wave face than a typical 100 plus liter board a lot of fun in light conditions but if it is flat or more side on b&j it feels like a pig. Even though it will plane in these conditions it just feels heavy. Have not played with fins.

If flat or more b&j in the conditions we get here I ride a 100 L freestyle board single fin to fill the gap..

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