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The Short Board Tack
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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 2026

PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Football. I stopped coaching basketball a long time ago as there was too much overlap with football during early November.

Coachg
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johnl



Joined: 05 Jun 1994
Posts: 1195
Location: Hood River OR

PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DanWeiss wrote:
Johnl, from the Arenal thread, I've also done many nearly, totally planing tacks. In fact, I swore that I planed through my first attempt over twenty years ago like this:

Sailed very lit up from a harbor blowing 15-20 into an area about 30 yards downwind of a low, windward beach. Wind in the shadow of the beach was probably 5-10 at the water's surface. My sail was a 6.1 racing sail, my board a 12 lb 90 liter slalom board. Everything was light as a feather, especially including me, about 150 lb.

I rounded up quickly, using as much rig position as possible and as little rail as I could. I switched sides very early and basically threw myself outboard on the new tack, taking the sail to windward. As you know, this pushes the nose away. I swear I recall exiting perfectly, hitting the front strap immediately. I pumped once to power the fin again and was in the back strap and harness right after that.

However, one very talented pro racer from my neighborhood saw it and later congratulated me on "almost" planing through. He said that the board pushed the bow wave too far forward to indicate planing, but that I popped right back so it probably felt as good as the real thing.

Maybe I'm wrong about freestylers. Maybe they can actually plane through a tack given the basic definition of planing (hydrodynamic force enough to lift the entire mass onto a small platform able to support it by lift, not buoyancy.)

I'll look for vids and will be happy to be wrong.


Yeah, pretty much were I was at (except, A, 175 - 180 pounds, B, 107 liter freestyle board, C, probably 5.2 sail). VERY close to planing out of it.

But remember years ago, loops were considered impossible. So to say that nobody can plane out of one I think is a wrong statement. I can't (at least not yet), but it is something to work for. But like you said, you really need to change sides real early and carve the board.

I just think it is a goal to shoot for. Coming close means you made a pretty good tack Smile
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jingebritsen



Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 2508

PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 6:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i've done plenty of planing 3 point turns attempting a planing tack. tons of wind and push from the inside goo helps a bunch. seen robby naish do a few in some videos with lotsa help from waves....
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DanWeiss



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 1979
Location: Connecticut, USA

PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok as to wave input, but that's just another way to see floatation at work, not just hydrodynamic lift, the strict def of planing. I can envision how timing it perfectly on certain size wave with the right wind etc could make it happen. I suppose Robby would be one of the guys to get it! Coach Ned yelled at me to defend my claim that I could do one, but he was right, it wasn't planing in the true sense.

Forgive my insistence that it's near impossible. Most everything may prove possible, of course. My Mobius Loop attempts of the early 90s got a lot of poo poo reactions but from one Dana Miller. Everyone else thought it was impossible to hit a back loop into a forward. Now? It's the shizzle. So planing tacks probably aren't impossible but I've yet to see someone actually do it, a true planing throughout tack.

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johnl



Joined: 05 Jun 1994
Posts: 1195
Location: Hood River OR

PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Being into the more "fun" aspect of windsurfing and not the scientific aspect. I figure if I can do a turn from a powered up position and exit in a powered up position, I'm planing Smile Although from the scientific position, I can see maybe I'm just "going fast" Smile But that is all good by me Smile
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tstizzle



Joined: 05 Jul 2000
Posts: 160

PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnl, my thoughts exactly!

even if a person ins't entirely planing, when i watch a great wave sailor go down the line on a wave that closes out with no room to jibe, the tack out of it is one of the coolest looking moves in windsurfing, in my opinion. entirely planing or not.
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tstizzle



Joined: 05 Jul 2000
Posts: 160

PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

however, i AM curious to know the answer ... Wink
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14627

PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In tstizzle's most excellent Costa Rica travelogue thread, johnl wrote:
isobars wrote:
By the time you tack to a crawl and get a small board back onto a plane, the tight jiber is LONG gone upwind. Fall, and he's outta sight before the tacker is even back on his board.

You isobashers would look a lot more rational if you'd look before bashing.


Once again you have no idea what you are talking about. Nobody I know crawls to a tack.

Here let me tell a "fictional story" to see if it helps you get it.....

Three people. We'll keep in simple and use fake names. Noob, WS, and SPWSG.

Noob asks WS and SPWSG a question. He says hey guys, I'm thinking about eating an orange. I've never eaten one before, I tend to eat apples, what do you think...

SPWSG says..... You don't need oranges. I've eaten 10's of thousands of apples and they are the best. I eat them all day long sometimes for 8 hours a day. They are the best. I've never eaten an orange but because of my vast experience eating apples I can tell you that you are wasting your time eating an orange.

WS says..... Well I've eaten both oranges and apples. Both are pretty good. But they are different. I would suggest trying both of them before you decide....

Is there an honest bone in your body? I said “tack to a crawl” (i.e., failing to plane out of the tack), not “crawl to a tack” (i.e., enter the tack slogging). Your word games give our professional word-game champs a run for their money, but you’re not on the podium yet.

Didn't yo momma advise you to look before you bash?

You left out my favorite food, the all-purpose banana: promoting multiple techniques, many of them readily available to any intermediate or advanced sailor to get and stay upwind rather than relying on the elusive, allegedly even mythical, planing tack and insisting that everyone must follow suit or drift into flood tide oblivion. i.e., I’m suggesting people add apples and bananas to their repertoire, but you’re demanding they must drop the apples and rely only on mythical oranges. i.e., MyWayOrTheHighway.

Now, just who is the SPWSG … MWOTH or Chiquita Banana? And how many people want to devote 8 hours of sailing every windy day for years PRACTICING eating an apple when they could just peel and eat bananas and get on with the fun stuff?

Meanwhile, slogging knee-deep in a flood tide is about as productive as the Puffin’s faceplant … er … gecko loop, in fact even much more counterproductive.
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 2036

PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the (mostly) considerate and informative posts on tacking. I was in the "who cares, I'll just do a tight jibe or a pivot jibe if needed" camp.

Two things changed that. A trip to wave sail at PSC and learning to kite.

At PSC, I found my tacking buddy had another weapon for getting on a wave. A quick tack as the wave lifted him and he was off and riding. Meanwhile, my pivot jibe was much more sensitive to the geometry of the wave. Sometimes it was just too steep to jibe all the way around...no matter how tight I could turn.

When I took up kiting, it renewed my interest in trying new things.

So now, after 30 years of windsurfing, I am learning to tack!
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gerritt



Joined: 06 May 1998
Posts: 429
Location: Redwood City, CA

PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coboardhead wrote:
When I took up kiting, it renewed my interest in trying new things.

So now, after 30 years of windsurfing, I am learning to tack!


That's the spirit - try new things. I guess I thought surfing looked too easy, so at age 48 I decided I'd handicapped myself enough to give it a try. Now after two years of paddling and falling, paddling and falling some more, I've actually ridden a few waves without the aide of a sail. For me its new and different and a perfect addition to keep me on the water year round. The last couple of springs, which on the Santa Cruz coast usually begin from zero to OP 4.0 with mast high conditions in March, have been much easier on my body than in years past having to shake off the couch crust. I should have been surfing 20 years ago, or even 30 when I started windsurfing.

Iso, who seems to have been born old, always seems to have an excuse not to try something new:
1. Tacks lose ground - you are in the Gorge where falling in gains ground! I'm not talking easterly winds, but the usual summer pattern that sets up the famous river swell. Water moving opposite of wind = permanent ebb conditions = small fins and sails = you want to rest and get up wind, just fall in = perfect set up to try new moves, Duh.
2. Waves and wind are too hard to find - I've driven thousands of miles and spent countless hours and dollars in pursuit of a condition that so rarely exists, its simply not worth the effort. Yes, all the magazine shots and youtube video is simply special effects and photoshop. We who sail in the waves are liars. The AWT does not exist and besides the river swells in the Gorge are waves, thus I'm really a wave sailor and you should all listen to my sage advice.
3. The new style of board (which don't crawl to a plane), cannot stay planted on the water. Therefore, I prefer my older proven shapes and will not under any circumstance try a newer style of board - same goes for sails.
4. I live where I live in isolation because all other 49 states have outlawed guns and my way of life is under attack. Therefore, I choose to call myself Iso (lation) and rarely come out from behind my computer keyboard for fear of meeting someone new and having to interact and coexist with my fellow human being, who I have a right to shoot should they trespass against me.
5. Kiting should be outlawed since it is too easy to learn and puts inexperienced young people on the water who threaten the lives of everyone around them. Since there have never been any surfers sitting in the lineup of Gorge river swell, Iso does not recognize this old refrain has been sung before by an older and even more ornery demographic than the one he comes from.

I do not like Green Eggs and Ham.
I will not tack, I'll jibe instead.
I will not tack to get up wind.
I will not tack, it has no place.
I will not try it, I might lose face.
I do not like to fall, I might get wet.
I only try things that are a safe bet.
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