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The Short Board Tack
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johnl



Joined: 05 Jun 1994
Posts: 1195
Location: Hood River OR

PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coachg wrote:

John, the reason we go early & backwind the sail is to avoid becoming a German U-Boat commander as you are in that photo. Even though it is an impressive show of balance, such a tack would not get you upwind in a flood as Iso's stated. However, being able to tack such as you are is a great skill to have when the wind dies and saves you energy from having to swim. Backwind sailing through your tack also helps with the unnecessary trick called a carve jibe.

Coachg


I know it wasn't the best picture. Smile That was the second day sailing on the board (either 80 or 82 liters). Whenever I get a new board, I like to find my comfort zone on it. Once I get below 85 liters I know my tacks are going to be less reliable. But I always like to try just to see if I can. Good thing to know. I was way late getting over. Funny, I didn't remember being that far underwater during it, but my wife took that picture so I had to post it Smile Although I always try to do my tacks with speed when carving upwind. It creates more stability.

In wavesailing, I learned that the tack is something real handy to be able to do when you are sailing out through the break and a good swell comes in. It allows them to turn immediately and then catch the wave. Something a jibe doesn't allow. And this is something discussed by the pros when teaching wavesailing camps.

As to being in the way of somebody jibing. Get used to it. NOBODY says somebody is going to jibe every single time. They might tack, throw a vulcan, or sail into the beach. It's a very simple skill to learn. You just turn your head and look before you turn. Something a lot of people don't seem to have mastered yet......
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14612

PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnl wrote:
As to being in the way of somebody jibing. Get used to it. NOBODY says somebody is going to jibe every single time. They might tack, throw a vulcan, or sail into the beach. It's a very simple skill to learn. You just turn your head and look before you turn.

"Get used to it"? The guy who crushed Barbara Greene's skull and left gray matter floating in the Columbia looked. That's not good enough in the central Corridor, where hundreds of Hatchery jibes daily require constant mid-jibe weaves around fallen, slogging, and planing sailors.
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cgoudie1



Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 1333
Location: Killer Sturgeon Cove

PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No contention was intended, but you need to understand the environment
you sail in, and things do happen pretty fast in high wind. So I
recommend vigilance (and quick feet), because you just never know
when somebody is not "turning their head and looking before they turn" ,
and just tacks right up into your grill.

-Craig


johnl wrote:
[As to being in the way of somebody jibing. Get used to it. NOBODY says somebody is going to jibe every single time. They might tack, throw a vulcan, or sail into the beach. It's a very simple skill to learn. You just turn your head and look before you turn. Something a lot of people don't seem to have mastered yet......
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johnl



Joined: 05 Jun 1994
Posts: 1195
Location: Hood River OR

PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
johnl wrote:
As to being in the way of somebody jibing. Get used to it. NOBODY says somebody is going to jibe every single time. They might tack, throw a vulcan, or sail into the beach. It's a very simple skill to learn. You just turn your head and look before you turn.

"Get used to it"? The guy who crushed Barbara Greene's skull and left gray matter floating in the Columbia looked. That's not good enough in the central Corridor, where hundreds of Hatchery jibes daily require constant mid-jibe weaves around fallen, slogging, and planing sailors.


And maybe if she had paid more attention to the person downwind (you know the one with ROW) maybe it might not have happened. You need to LOOK around you when sailing (especially when changing your direction). You never know what somebody else is going to do and to expect them to do what you want them to do is just stupid.

Oh yeah, using an injured (or dead?) person with your graphic details as an example for your usual one sided viewpoint is pretty lame. Showing off your people skills once again huh?
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johnl



Joined: 05 Jun 1994
Posts: 1195
Location: Hood River OR

PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cgoudie1 wrote:
No contention was intended, but you need to understand the environment
you sail in, and things do happen pretty fast in high wind. So I
recommend vigilance (and quick feet), because you just never know
when somebody is not "turning their head and looking before they turn" ,
and just tacks right up into your grill.

-Craig


Hey nobody isn't saying crap doesn't happen. I've had to not tack just because somebody was bearing down from above. And on the other hand, I have to do an emergency tack because people have fallen down in front of me leaving me no where SAFE to go. Windsurfing requires you to be aware of what is going on around you. Anybody who flys into a jibe without looking is dangerous. No different than jumping without looking around, or boosting for kiters. It's all the same. Just be considerate of what is going on around you. Accidents will still happen, but if everybody looked around it would be nicer.

Next time sailing (probably spring for most) watch other people before they turn. You will notice the majority of them do not look. It should be the other way around....
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14612

PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coachg wrote:
Jumping is an unnecessary trick.

being able to tack such as you are is a great skill to have when the wind dies and saves you energy from having to swim.

By the way Isoís, didnít you injure yourself attempting an unnecessary trick?

Without the J, B&J is just B. For an ex-dirt biker, the J comes naturally. Given planing speeds and a ramp, it doesnít even require skill or practice, and NO one does them perfectly every time. Besides, I made a GREAT jump; the problem was the landing.

I can swim MUCH farther, and with FAR less effort, than I can slog a small board, despite 30 years of practice at the latter. Better yet is using planning (as opposed to planing), the current, the wind, and other skills to minimize both slogging and swimming.
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cgoudie1



Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 1333
Location: Killer Sturgeon Cove

PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whether they're tacking or jibing. ;*)

-Craig

johnl wrote:
Next time sailing (probably spring for most) watch other people before they turn. You will notice the majority of them do not look. It should be the other way around....


Last edited by cgoudie1 on Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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cgoudie1



Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 1333
Location: Killer Sturgeon Cove

PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is going to be my mantra on any of my future blown jumps (landings)

;*)

-Craig

isobars wrote:

Besides, I made a GREAT jump; the problem was the landing.

I.
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DanWeiss



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 1979
Location: Connecticut, USA

PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Johnl, from the Arenal thread, I've also done many nearly, totally planing tacks. In fact, I swore that I planed through my first attempt over twenty years ago like this:

Sailed very lit up from a harbor blowing 15-20 into an area about 30 yards downwind of a low, windward beach. Wind in the shadow of the beach was probably 5-10 at the water's surface. My sail was a 6.1 racing sail, my board a 12 lb 90 liter slalom board. Everything was light as a feather, especially including me, about 150 lb.

I rounded up quickly, using as much rig position as possible and as little rail as I could. I switched sides very early and basically threw myself outboard on the new tack, taking the sail to windward. As you know, this pushes the nose away. I swear I recall exiting perfectly, hitting the front strap immediately. I pumped once to power the fin again and was in the back strap and harness right after that.

However, one very talented pro racer from my neighborhood saw it and later congratulated me on "almost" planing through. He said that the board pushed the bow wave too far forward to indicate planing, but that I popped right back so it probably felt as good as the real thing.

Maybe I'm wrong about freestylers. Maybe they can actually plane through a tack given the basic definition of planing (hydrodynamic force enough to lift the entire mass onto a small platform able to support it by lift, not buoyancy.)

I'll look for vids and will be happy to be wrong.

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whitevan01



Joined: 29 Jun 2007
Posts: 510

PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coachg wrote:
This problem is magnified by Einsteinís theory of relativity. Coachg


Coach G,
I think the shortboard tack is highly under-rated. Not only can it be useful in river currents, but can also be useful in ocean currents. Currently (pun intended), I can tack my Ray 130, and am close (at I think so) to completing them on my RW 102.

As for your statement about Einstein's Theory of Relativity - your examples are really related to Galilean Relativity. Einstein extended and added what occurs at speeds close to the speed of light to what Galileo had already described in the very early 17th century. Galileo actually used being on a sailing ship to describe this, I'm sure he would have used windsurfing in his example if it had existed then. I like to think that since Galileo was a lute playing scientist in his day, that he would have been a baritone sax playing, windsurfer-scientist had he lived in our times (although he probably would be a guitar player like most people that play an instrument these days seem to play).

btw, the students on my Physics Olympics team call me Coach G also. What do you coach?
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