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mac
Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17747
Location: Berkeley, California
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 Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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Out of respect for Capetonian's request, if we want to talk about race--and to it in an adult manner--let's do it on this thread. Poinster made a very important point about demonization:
| Quote: | I was not denying racism exists. I was just saying that Obam is primarily being demonized because he is a Democrat, as is Nancy Pelosi, and Harry Reid. Consider the Swift Boating of John Kerry, the accusations that the Clintons were involved in drug running and the murder of Vince Foster.
To be clear, I don't like hyper-partisanship any more than I do racism. I do know that if I want to constructively engage with conservatives, blanket charges of racism will not further my efforts. |
Excellent point, some will demonize Democrats regardless of their race, and that demonization will use the tools of propaganda. I agree that most of those who disagree with Obama disagree on a policy basis. The contribution of overt racism to that disagreement is probably on the range of 5%. My source for that is the 5% increase in anti-African American sentiment after his election, and polling that showed hard core opposition to black politicians in the range of 2 to 5%.
I have tried to make two points, which I believe are important. First, racial images are intentionally used by the GOP to galvanize the most conservative voters. The use of Willie Horton and Obama phones was intentional, and was debated within campaign staff because most political pros understand that such messages are effective, even if they also create a backlash. The point is that the GOP will use such messages, without shame, for political gain.
The second point is related to the first point; both have to do with a tone deafness to racial disparities. Many of the policies of the GOP have disparately greater effects, economically and in restricting voting rights, on minorities. While I don't think that these policies are adopted because the party operatives are racist, I think that adopting such policies without considering the disproportionate impacts is, in fact, racism. What is commonly called racism 2.0. New and improved. The three areas where this occurs are 1) shredding of the safety net, particularly food stamps; 2) defunding of public schools, and 3) creating barriers to voting which disproportionately affect minorities.
On the latter, GOP states have adopted a number of measures, not merely voter identification, that have been discussed in strategy sessions as means to reduce minority turn-out. Limits to voter registration reduce participation by the poor, who move more frequently and find it more difficult to register at their new address. But poor people in America are, disproportionately, minorities. Voter identification requirements that are substantially higher for voting than necessary are also disproportionately greater in impact on minorities. The list doesn't stop there--several states, most notoriously Florida, Ohio, and Arizona, have understaffed voting booths in Democratic-- i.e. minority--districts to make it harder to vote. Such measures need not be motivated by malice to constitute discrimination. see http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/03/how-voter-id-laws-are-being-used-to-disenfranchise-minorities-and-the-poor/254572/
Access to food for poor children is perhaps the most heartless example of these policies. The narrative put out on talk radio is that food stamps nurture a culture of dependency. We hear that the poor would be better off if they were industrious. We also hear attacks on Obama for the poor economic recovery--and the cognitive dissonance in trying to rationalize these two things. In fact, 76% of the households with food assistance have a child or elderly person in the household. http://billmoyers.com/2013/10/08/six-myths-about-food-stamps/
I teach in a school where many kids qualify for free breakfasts and lunch, and it is true that providing such food sends a signal such that food is not as valued. Very different than my parochial school upbringing, where somehow I was supposed to eat some vile portion because children in India and China were starving. No easy answers here--but a cut of $40 billion will send many minority kids to bed hungry. Was that the intent? No, but that is the effect. Facts are distorted, and greed rules.
Schools is more of the same. In many areas white folks have abandoned the schools because of concerns over discipline and performance. While this is understandable--I have a number of African-American friends of means who took their kids out of schools so they wouldn't be tempted to hang out with thugs--those parents have not supported school funding and we again have a racially segregated school system in many areas where a disproportionate share of the hard to educate remain in the public schools while the high achievers are in private schools. Was the intent prejudicial? Perhaps not, but the impact surely is.
These are important matters, and deserve to be discussed seriously. Not with a response, as the instant one was when I started the thread, that to be concerned about discrimination is racism. That is nonsense. |
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nw30
Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 6485
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast
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| Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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| mac wrote: | Out of respect for Capetonian's request, if we want to talk about race--and to it in an adult manner--let's do it on this thread. Poinster made a very important point about demonization:
| Quote: | I was not denying racism exists. I was just saying that Obam is primarily being demonized because he is a Democrat, as is Nancy Pelosi, and Harry Reid. Consider the Swift Boating of John Kerry, the accusations that the Clintons were involved in drug running and the murder of Vince Foster.
To be clear, I don't like hyper-partisanship any more than I do racism. I do know that if I want to constructively engage with conservatives, blanket charges of racism will not further my efforts. |
Excellent point, some will demonize Democrats regardless of their race, and that demonization will use the tools of propaganda. I agree that most of those who disagree with Obama disagree on a policy basis. |
I'm calling BS on this statement of yours, as you attempt to apply it to yourself, you've been calling just about every conservative who has the guts to post here, a racist in one form or another here for years, ever since BHO got elected. Everything from an all out racist, to a knuckle dragger (also racist), and everything in between.
So I'm not buying what you are, all of a sudden, trying to sell.
But I will nominate you as the Kanye West of race relations. |
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mac
Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17747
Location: Berkeley, California
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 12:13 am Post subject: |
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| Didn't read the rest of the post, did you? Subtlety goes right by. |
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nw30
Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 6485
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast
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| Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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An interesting read that I came across.
Racism can either start or end at the top, but will it?
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Obama’s Half-Brother: ‘Barack Thought I Was Too White’
"Barack thought I was too white and I thought he was too black...”
12.20.2013
Mark Obama Ndesandjo
In an interview with AP, President Obama’s half-brother, Mark Obama Ndesandjo, described his relationship with his brother as “cold” and stated that when the two first met in Kenya in 1988, “Barack thought I was too white, and I thought he was too black.”
AP conducted the interview as a lead up to Ndesandjo’s autobiography that, in part, highlights the alcohol-fueled domestic abuse he experienced under Barack Obama Sr.
As in his first book, Ndesandjo wanted to raise awareness of domestic abuse by using his family's story, although he said in an interview with The Associated Press on Tuesday that the president's relatives have not universally welcomed his airing of private matters in public. Ndesandjo spoke ahead of a news conference to launch the book in Guangzhou on Thursday.
The book also touches on the “sporadic but intense encounters” with his half-brother, Barack, a relationship Ndesandjo describes as currently “cold”:
"Right now it's cold, and I think part of the reason is because of my writing. My writing has alienated some people in my family."
Ndesandjo told AP that this tension with Barack started immediately. When he first met his half-brother in Kenya in 1988, the two did not see to eye to eye, particularly in regard to their racial identities:
"Barack thought I was too white, and I thought he was too black. He was an American searching for his African roots, I was a Kenyan, I'm an American but I was living in Kenya, searching for my white roots."
However, despite the current tensions, Ndesandjo hopes to eventually reconcile the distant relationship with his half-brother, saying,
"I hope that my brother and I can really hug each other after he's president and we can be a family again."
http://www.truthrevolt.org/news/obamas-half-brother-barack-thought-i-was-too-white |
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mac
Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17747
Location: Berkeley, California
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| Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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NW continues to be a very poor spokesperson for the John Birch Society, pretending that racism wasn't a core founding principle. I saw this guy on TV last night at the gym, looking for bucks. So NW posts from an ultra-right wing site. Here's their mission:
The media win elections for the left. It’s not the left’s competence in office; leftists have demonstrated none. It’s not the left’s ideas; leftist ideas have failed everywhere they have been tried. The left wins for one simple reason: leftists control the information distribution system in the United States. And they use that system to pillory conservatives as heartless bigots intent on harming the poor and targeting minorities.
The media must be destroyed where they stand. That is our mission at Truth Revolt. The goal of TruthRevolt is simple: unmask leftists in the media for who they are, destroy their credibility with the American public, and devastate their funding bases.
T | Quote: | ruthRevolt focuses on high-profile media members, and holding them accountable. But TruthRevolt does not stop there. TruthRevolt understands that all politics is local, and therefore looks to fight leftist propaganda at the local level, monitoring local newspapers, television and radio. TruthRevolt also seeks to stop the left dead in its tracks when it comes to training the next generation, our college campuses.
TruthRevolt works to make advertisers and funders aware of the leftist propaganda they sponsor – and bringing social consequences to bear to create pressure on such advertisers and funders.
This will get personal. This will get rough. We’re ready for action. |
Too funny. Credibility and integrity don't appear to be within NW's working vocabulary. |
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nw30
Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 6485
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast
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| Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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Once again because you don't like the article, attack the source to either make yourself feel better, or claim it's all a fake story, or both.
BTW, AP is also running the same story.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Obama’s half brother claims their shared father was physically abusive in explosive new book
Mark Obama Ndesandjo also recounts his sporadic but intense encounters with his brother over the years in “Cultures: My Odyssey of Self-Discovery.”
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Thursday, December 19, 2013, 8:45 AM
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/obama-brother-releasing-book-father-abuse-article-1.1552646#ixzz2o2kR0rcN |
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mac
Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17747
Location: Berkeley, California
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| Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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| NW--you don't get it, even a little bit. I don't even read stories from John Birch clones. Nothing like hamstringing your own credibility. |
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nw30
Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 6485
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast
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| Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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| mac wrote: | | NW--you don't get it, even a little bit. I don't even read stories from John Birch clones. Nothing like hamstringing your own credibility. |
Well then you shouldn't be reading my posts, but you do anyway, maybe you should start a "killfile" like Iso's (or whatever he calls it), then you could keep your mind free, clean, and clear, from all the opposing poison out there.
Just a suggestion, your health may depend on it. |
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mac
Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17747
Location: Berkeley, California
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| Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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Ahh NW, I was raised a Catholic. So I was conditioned to believe that there is hope for redemption as long as there is life. Maybe not much hope, but I think there is a chance that you may someday post a thoughtful and credible bit of insight that is well informed and unbiased. I think there is a chance you may someday ask yourself--who is paying these sources that I used to rely on? What are their editorial policies? Do they check facts? Are they credible.
While I have been conditioned to accept the chance of redemption, I am not holding my breath. |
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nw30
Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 6485
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast
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| Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Thank you brother. |
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