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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5345

PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Un oh, he's peeking. I guess we can expect pages of responses again. Perhaps a more moderate tone--but not until he had accused me of cherry-picking.

Quote:
What I learned from this unfiltered thread was your concurrence with me and most experts that the models drastically exaggerate the threat of AGW. Glad to hear it, as it's obvious you've given this whole topic a great deal of thought and study.


Iso--I do know enough about modeling, and the field of sea level rise in particular, to put only limited trust in the initial models. You exaggerate when you describe that as drastically exaggerating the risks. Knowing the shortcomings of the models is quite different from alleging, as you did, that global warming is the greatest hoax ever, and intended to re-distribute money. The latter appears to be your greatest fear.

The problem with your post is exactly cherry-picking. You carried on about Lomborg's first book--which argued that global warming was not occurring--without mentioning his second book, which acknowledged that it is. You didn't appear to understand Singer's interview on PBS, which was transcribed in the link I provided, and you accused PBS of libeling Singer. In fact, Singer acknowledged that global warming is occurring, and the theory behind increased CO2 and increased temperatures is sound. So neither of your somewhat credible sources supported your conclusion of fraud. Now you admit you skim sources, so I'm guessing you read to support your views, not for critical thinking. When I pointed that out, you quit citing sources and repeatedly said, do your own homework.

Lastly you wanted me to read Avery. I have followed dozens of denier threads because I have a role in defining California's response to sea level rise. It would be just as wrong to overreact to climate change as to ignore the signs, but California has billions of water and flood control infrastructure that will have to be modified to deal with climate change. Avery and Singer are public relations flacks for the denier industry. If you had any commitment to critical thinking, you would see how they are perceived, and search for skeptical sources that have at least some credibility. See for example: http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2009/03/30/203886/global-warming-denier-dennis-avery-mauna-loa-co2-concentrations/

I've posted the names and links to skeptics who have credentials and work in the arena of peer review. There is tremendous value in both skepticism and gray literature--they surface ideas that need to be tested. But it is the peer review process that is the accepted scientific testing ground. Avery and Singer are not willing, or capable, of participating in that arena. Deniers are quick to argue that peer review is not needed. They are just wrong on this one.

You persist in this approach with your latest conclusions that warming has flattened and everything is hunky-dory. You omit, and don't appear to have read or thought about, the scientific explanations of the so-called plateau. You, and anyone, are well within your rights to remain skeptical. But you have a responsibility to understand the other side of the story if you want to be taken seriously.
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 3077
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ebbride wrote:
Despite Iso's somewhat abrasive way of delivering his message I enjoy his posts in a kind of weird "what's he gonna say next" way. I tend to read past the bravado and self promotion to get to the point he is trying to make. Let's face it, old dudes get grumpy and opinionated and I think he has probably earned that right as someone who has experienced and accomplished a lot. I say if you don't like him or what he says then don't read his posts.


kind of weird .. say next

reminds me of the 3 Stooges hitting each other with a hammer,

because when you stopped it felt good

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reinerehlers



Joined: 25 Jul 2001
Posts: 998

PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Time to lock thread? What's the point of this anyway? It's just more divisive BS that's not good for the WSing community. Delete the whole damn thing and while you're at it, erase the Politic Forums too. That's another wedge driving people apart.
Reading this is like watching "Housewives of whatever city" it's a friggen trainwreck.There's no tongue in cheek humor just malice at this point.
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 3077
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

its mostly contained in 2 threads now, I vote leave it go on
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5345

PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RR-where is your sense of humor? This is very funny.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14310

PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ebbride wrote:
I tend to read past the bravado and self promotion to get to the point he is trying to make.

You're apparently a rare breed; most are unwilling to make that leap. Now as soon as you recognize that it's usually convictions in my opinions more than bravado and stoke/credentials/support rather than self promotion, I'd say you've got it. If I were into self-promotion, I'd film myself, have my own blog, and not only claim my crashes were deliberate but give them names.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14310

PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WMP wrote:
Wasn't legal.... nope, it was a medical condition for which I was misdiagnosed.

I'd really like to know how I became so honored by your choice?

By your repeated false accusations concerning murder threats.

Wardog's accusation seemed to involve a messy divorce, not a medical issue. You seemed upset by his highly personal and irrelevant comments, I got in his face about it, and you thanked me.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14310

PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haven't forgotten at all about the questions or my response regarding the "lawyers" bit. My response was drafted > a week ago, but put on hold because of youwindsurf's admission of trolling and his previous refusals to answer any of my questions regarding his accusations. I don't knowingly deal with trolls, don't see any relevance to this interview, and I asked him first.

Besides, I've made the same statement before. It's nothing new. Why the hullaballoo now, in Mitch's forum in which he requested civility? In particular, this is not the AGW thread. For what I ACTUALLY think and said about that, see those threads.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14310

PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

reinerehlers wrote:
erase the Politic Forums too. That's another wedge driving people apart.

I agree 100%. In all seriousness, I encountered an entirely new subspecies of hominids there. I hope to hell that branch of (in)humanity is a dead end.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5881

PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, I enjoy the political side of the iWindsurf forum, and I think that iWindsurf did the right thing making a destination spot where you choose to visit.

reinerehlers, why do you go to the political forum and post there if you really believe what you said?

isobars, given your 17:59 comment, will you promise to never visit and post there?

I think that you know that life is about choices, particularly at this stage in your life. So, when you show up there in the future, we all know that you wanted to be a part of it. However, when you do visit, and you certainly will, please leave the victim routine at the door before entering.


Last edited by swchandler on Wed Oct 16, 2013 1:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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