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rigging a North 8.1 luff 5.15 on a 460 mast?
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5966

PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well LeeD, I used Powerex red flex-tops in all my Windwings up until I bought my first quiver of Black Diamonds that recommended constant curve masts in 1995. Those Powerex masts worked beautifully. Maybe you can explain why Bill Hansen was wrong in recommending flex-top masts for his sails up to his design change to constant curve masts somewhere about 1994 to 1995.
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PeconicPuffin



Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 1229

PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:36 pm    Post subject: Re: rigging a North 8.1 luff 5.15 on a 460 mast? Reply with quote

boardtrax wrote:


any thoughts...?


Don't look at that sail like a cheap way to get bigger than your 7.2, unless your 7.2 is 25 years old.

Don't buy it. It looks like a waste of $50 to me. If your 7.2 is half decent, let the outhaul out a bit...bag the sail...and you'll get at least as good performance as you would out of this 8.1.

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http://www.peconicpuffin.com
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zirtaeb



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 2424

PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For SWChandler....
Bill was totally wrong.
As of 1991, everyone at Berleley who raced used CC masts with the flex top recommended Wiindwings, up to '95, when they were spec'ed for CC masts.
Even Waddel sails, Trevor, JimJohnstone, and I used CC masts as early as '91.
And you know what? RDM's worked even better! For the race sails up to 6.7 sizing.
You were just out of the loop, sorry.
For North, if you try to rig a 4 cam with flex top, you'd pull your back out, as it needed over 500lbs downhaul tension. Using CC, it's easy to downhaul, and while the draft moves back 5", it works great.
And yes, SpeedTCC's, up to 7 meters, worked best with CC's.
Above, only a stiffer CC is needed, like a 490 - 28.
But in this case, applied to reality, the TCC is used for LIGHT WINDS only, not racing in planing conditions.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5966

PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right or wrong, I guess everyone is entitled to an opinion. Like I said before, my sails all worked beautifully with the Powerex red flex-top carbon masts. I certainly didn't have any complaints with their performance and range.

Pretty damn bold on your part to say that Bill was wrong. Yet, I have to say that you haven't really explained why Bill was wrong in his recommendations. It would be interesting to hear Bill's opinion about this.

While Bill did ultimately make the switch to constant curve masts, I'm thinking that he made design changes in his sails to correspond to the different curve and stiffness profile. Just for the record, I have been sailing Windwings, and later Hansens since 1986. It was only with the 2007 Hansens that I felt that Bill was off his game, but honestly, I attribute a lot of that to poor manufacturing quality. Still loving my old Windwings though.
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zirtaeb



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 2424

PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry you got left out of the loop.
Bard and Bill designed the sails together, Bard wanting the stiffer feel, Bill maybe less adamant.
After my short stint with Gaastra, then NP, directly to Windwing by '92, some of my friends, BobHuberman and ZackBeeckler, were wondering about the need for such a stiff mast on their team WindWing sails of '91. Bob started using prototype PX RDM's, which first came out in the '90 AWIA tradeshow, which I ordered a couple of for surfsailing, but that's another story.
Bob got Zack and JohnCallahan, another TEAM Windwing rider, to switch to CC masts, but both Z and John used standard diameter CC masts.
Trevor heard of this by the end of '91, and Jim always liked a softer feel, so they tried the switch at the end of '91, and while Trevor never made a complete switch, Jim did. Jim was the REP for Waddel sails.
I rode for Waddell sails in '91, the standard deal, for working at SausalitoSailboards for 4 years. I immediately hated the race sails with flex top masts, and used my PXRDM's exclusively by the time the race season started in late April. Jim recommended standards, but RDM's worked just fine, and had good range. This was '91.
I switched shops to Windsports at the end of '92, and told everyone to start using CC's on their Wings, based on Bob's and Zacks recommendations.
As for Bill, he's a personal bud, we've talked about this trend lots since '92, and while he is on the fence, he always said to use what you want on his sails. I doubt he would wholeheartly endorse anything counter to what he designed, but you should know, when he goes windsurfing, he uses only freewave boards and 4 batten wave style sails.....since '97. And he uses EzzyRDM's on his sails, which are spec'ed for PXRDM's of the time.
You do know the difference, I think.
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slinky



Joined: 24 Aug 2007
Posts: 429
Location: Old Saybrook Ct.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

$20.00 it's someting almost nobody wants.
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Boardhead1



Joined: 01 Mar 2011
Posts: 58
Location: St Petersburg Fl

PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi! I would stick with the 7.2. I use a Ezzy 7.0 SE Wave with Carbon RDM and Carbon booms on my Mistral Super Light. I like the lighter feel of the 7.0 sail than my 8.5 freeride for SL longboard . It's got a nice light feel for doing old school long board freestyle tricks. Helo tacks, Back to sail, Sail 360's wrong side of the sail sailing. I would use the $50.00 for a few lunch's and after session beers! Cheers! Mike
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boardtrax



Joined: 27 Sep 2013
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lol thanks for the laughs guys
maybe it might be best used as a tent? Cool

probably gona keep my $50 and follow mikes advice
and buy two 24's for the weekend! yeehaw!
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jingebritsen



Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 2463

PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 7:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pretty expensive tarp, IMHO. doubt it would match any current boards. maybe if you had a really old board?
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zirtaeb



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 2424

PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Figure this one out.....
There is NO such thing as needing to match new boards with new sails, old sails, or any kind of sail.
There is NO such thing as needing to match new sails with new boards, old boards, or any vintage board.
It all works, if you know how to rig and tune to your liking.
NOTHING works, if you rig badly and tune the same.
1989 sails work great with 2012 any kind of boards.
2013 sails work with 1987 slalom boards, and work well.
If you think it needs to be match by year, you don't know how to tune, rig, or know what you need.
Lots of great sailors mixing it up like my above examples.
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