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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 1471

PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
It would allow for the farm's 50 wind turbines near Rio Vista to kill up to five golden eagles over five years, the San Francisco Chronicle reported

So if the wind farm kills 5 golden eagles in year one, they shut down the farm for the next 4 years? What am I missing?
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3353

PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They are required to make other mitigation efforts like audio or visual warnings and have those approved through a lengthy process.
For example if four were killed by the blades, and one other in the lines they might require the lines to be buried.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5199

PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bard has gone off the tracks:

Quote:
You are just plain silly Mac.


Bard--you posted something that means the opposite of what you thought. You guys never think about the context, much less seeking another opinion, before you post this horseshit.

Techno--there have been long battles in California over wind farms. I have friends on both sides of the issues, but Breitbart and the rights take on it is just silly--to steal a phrase.

Let me use an analogy. Some of the heroes of conservation are the duck clubs in the Suisun Bay area. They have preserved freshwater wetlands and flood them so their members can shoot ducks. They also allow hunting in some of the wildlife refuges owned and managed by the US Fish and Wildlife Service around the Bay. In one recent year, 3,000 ducks were killed by hunters on the refuge. To place that in context, there are about 250,000 ducks that come to the Bay each year. In other words, the cull from hunting is not relevant to the population--but the preservation of the habitat is fundamental, and the most important factor in the number of individuals in the population.

This is a basic principle of ecology--preservation of a vigorous and viable gene pool, and the habitat to support that population, are the secrets to preservation of a species, not preservation of individuals. It is a different story for endangered species, where the preservation of the species is in question and it is forbidden to take, even accidentally, any of the surviving members.

Golden eagles are not endangered, and there is no penalty--for this licensing, if more than 5 eagles are killed. The ecological question, which is being tried here, is can mitigation--of whatever kind--increase the overall population despite the loss of a few individuals in the big eggbeaters. The success or lack of success here will be used down the line when more are proposed and the impacts need to be analyzed.

Don't worry, there are environmentalists nearly as ignorant of basic principles of ecology, just as Breitbart's toads and the righties here who jumped on the feed to try to argue that windpower is terrible. That line of reasoning is a bunch of happy horseshit--but the right is happy to consume it.
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3353

PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Windmills are making Maui very happy as well as cheap solar cells with the fed tax rebate.
Without GOP opposition a lot can be accomplished which they say is impossible.
Damn liberals who run this place grinning and winking at each other when they read Breitbart.
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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 1691
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mac, you have posted stuff from the Rolling Stone on this thread as well as your thread about the TEA party, just today, and then you go and accuse the peeps like me, whom you don't agree with, of using sources that aren't unbiased in your opinion.
Is it your opinion that the Rolling Stone is an unbiased source of info?
If so, your ideology has blinded you.

_________________
I don't drink the 'cool' aid, I drink tequila, it's more honest.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5199

PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NW30--No, I don't consider Rolling Stone to be unbiased--nor Nation, which I also read. I don't endorse most of their opinions--but I read them for insight. The difference between them and Breitbart, and the Drudge report that you are so fond of is the presence of an editor. Someone who checks to see if the facts are correct on a piece of journalism. I posted the Rolling Stone link so people could see where the money comes from, and the absolutely batshit ideas of the Tea Party. If you don't think that the presence of an editor, and the use of a biased source to give insight rather than present an opinion as a fact, are fundamentally different from the partisan blasts you post, then it is no wonder you post so much shit.
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 4105

PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:
Quote:
It would allow for the farm's 50 wind turbines near Rio Vista to kill up to five golden eagles over five years, the San Francisco Chronicle reported

So if the wind farm kills 5 golden eagles in year one, they shut down the farm for the next 4 years? What am I missing?
''

How many hundreds of thousands of turbines would it take to power a city? Easy to see there will be thousands of dead eagles in the end.
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pueno



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2662

PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mac wrote:
That line of reasoning is a bunch of happy horseshit--but the right is happy to consume it.

Sorry, Mac, but I disagree. The right is happy to feed it, not consume it.

They know full well it's happy horseshit.

That's why they're funny.


stevenbard wrote:

How many hundreds of thousands of turbines would it take to power a city? Easy to see there will be thousands of dead eagles in the end.

Mr. B., in order to answer your question (yes, I know you meant it as a rhetorical jab, but you failed, no surprise there), start with some specifics.
- Where are these wind turbines and what's the average power output of each?
- What's the anticipated total power produced by the farm?
- How big is the city (how many dwellings)?
- What's the power requirement for business and industry in your imaginary city?
- What does each dwelling require for power, on average?
- What's the peak expected demand for all combined?

Once you consider those questions and that data, then you can answer your stupid question and estimate how many stupid eagles will fly into the wind turbines.

Oh, by the way, this is a lesson in evolution. After a hundred years, the surviving population of eagles will be smarter. They'll be the ones who were smart enough to learn to avoid those noisy machines. The dumb ones became dinner for dogs.

Read this.
.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5199

PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Should we stake out the Breitbart writer as bait for eagles?

In a serious vein, neither Bard nor NW seem to understand the pathological and unethical behavior of Breitbart and his clones now that he is dead. Breitbart was never a journalist. He was a provocateur, who manipulated people to try to create bits to feed angry right wingers (and make money for himself.) His reporting of those events was fundamentally dishonest--ignoring his role in creating what he then labeled outrageous liberal activities. He is just like a pornographer--he panders to the worst in people without presenting anything remotely like the facts--much less those aspects of literature or journalism (or erotic writing) that challenge one's thinking and present the noble as well as ignoble sides of human behavior.
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3353

PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The two small wind farms on Maui produce about 70 MW of power which is enough for about 50K homes.
There are few bird kills.
Wiki states that fossil fuel plants kill about twenty times as many birds per MW.
Another interesting thing I found was a that FOX, Forbes, WSF, and other sources on the Right have all published material opposing wind farms at about the same time.
Oil Lobbyist money extends even to those guys.
At one time partisans on the Right like Pickens were big supporters of homemade power to free us from Mideast oil.
I guess since O supports it now, so they must be against.
Screw America. Give me my lobbyist money.
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