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Help understanding Slalom
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zirtaeb



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 2319

PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While I don't threaten 30 mph ever nowadaze, I would be wary of sailing around at top speeds out in the Olympic circle, but that's just old cautious me.
I haven't been launched more than twice in the past 20 years, and I don't plan to add to that total.
However, I've broken more than 12 masts, 10 booms, sheared fins off at the bases, and snapped 6 boards in half. Not recommended when you're out at R-2 or Alcatraz speeding along with a big smile on your face.
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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 1981

PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sergio,

You keep talking about me, myself & I. It isnít about you; it is about what is the best tool for the average beginning intermediate to learn on. Occasionally you will get an aggressive student who is fearless, but they are the exception, not the norm. The average beginning intermediate is cautious and tentative when going for the foot straps. The normal beginning intermediate needs a slower approach as they develop muscle memory & confidence. The problem with the dedicated slalom board for the normal novice, besides cost, is the board is at warp drive long before the student is ready for the straps so they are flying along at warp speed trying to nervously get into the outboard straps. Tacking & gybing the slalom board will leave the same problems for the novice, a required commitment they don't have.

Iím not saying your method of throwing novices onto thoroughbreds wonít work as that technique was employed with great success by Japan at the end of World War II. They called it Kamikaze. The problem I see now, as then, is that kind of approach takes a great toll on body & equipment.

After double digit years of teaching windsurfing, math & PE along with coaching basketball & football I have found that students who achieve early success are more likely to stay with the subject, sport or game. Those who donít have immediate success are likely to quit. Sad, but often too true. That is why I & every instructor I know steer students away from slalom boards until they are ready. And yes, some are ready earlier than most.

Coachg
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sergio_k



Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 60

PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Coachg,
actually, I'm not talking about 'me/myself and I'... I base my recomendation on my experience (I had opportunity to design /customize boards, etc. play with diff fins/sails), so I personally able to test diff theories, I sail avg. > 100 days a year for the last 18 years (even when I lived in WI). I do assist beg. /intermediates just about every week (no money exchange, just love for the sport is my motivation). When left on traditionally suggested gear, as you recommend, progress pass some point is slow or they just stuck in beg./intermediate phase indefinitely, put them on advanced board, and they fly and I have hard time keeping up Smile 6 months later, it happens time after time... after time.... and that usually keeps them in the sport
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KevinDo



Joined: 02 Jul 2012
Posts: 401
Location: Cabrillo Inside

PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know but from what I've seen here and there, the guys who jumped on to slalom gear (boards sails and fins) are having difficulties mastering their gybe while those who stuck with freeride gear are nailing them perfectly. But everyone and everywhere is different!

-Kevin
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sergio_k



Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 60

PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KevinDo wrote:
I don't know but from what I've seen here and there, the guys who jumped on to slalom gear (boards sails and fins) are having difficulties mastering their gybe while those who stuck with freeride gear are nailing them perfectly. But everyone and everywhere is different!

-Kevin

what board size/wind.. If you read my comments, I'm referring to light/moderate (boards >120 l/wind 8-18 kn), high wind game is different,
need softer more forgiving shape, specially for beg./interm.
Perfect jibe...? Don't see too many people nailing perfect jibes every time,
(wind/water condtion is ever changing....) even pro's
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KevinDo



Joined: 02 Jul 2012
Posts: 401
Location: Cabrillo Inside

PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sergio_k wrote:
KevinDo wrote:
I don't know but from what I've seen here and there, the guys who jumped on to slalom gear (boards sails and fins) are having difficulties mastering their gybe while those who stuck with freeride gear are nailing them perfectly. But everyone and everywhere is different!

-Kevin

what board size/wind.. If you read my comments, I'm referring to light/moderate (boards >120 l/wind 8-18 kn), high wind game is different,
need softer more forgiving shape, specially for beg./interm.
Perfect jibe...? Don't see too many people nailing perfect jibes every time,
(wind/water condtion is ever changing....) even pro's


Cabrillo Inner Bay can range from 10mph to 20mph to 12mph to maybe 18mph to maybe 8mph in less than 5-10 minutes hahah. Board size on average is in the 115-120l area. Water conditions on average are pretty flat but not flat enough for 140 degree sailing (some days with a nice low tide it is though!). I'd say the guys on the freeride are probably nailing on average 70-80% of their gybes. Those 4 are mainly on FreeRide gear. One of them uses his Peter Thomen slalom board once in awhile.

-Kevin
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zirtaeb



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 2319

PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most of my buds jibe their dedicated slalom boards easily 100%, plane out maybe 75%, and don't fall more than once every 5 days of windsurfing.
If their hair get's wet, it's from the landing splash from a high jump.
Some of my buds, sailing for less than 3 years, do fall 50% of the time, but they are using the biggest sail possible for the wind conditions, basically pushing the limits.
Ride a smaller sail, fall less, if you're still planing.
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sergio_k



Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 60

PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zirtaeb wrote:
Most of my buds jibe their dedicated slalom boards easily 100%, plane out maybe 75%, and don't fall more than once every 5 days of windsurfing.
If their hair get's wet, it's from the landing splash from a high jump.
Some of my buds, sailing for less than 3 years, do fall 50% of the time, but they are using the biggest sail possible for the wind conditions, basically pushing the limits.
Ride a smaller sail, fall less, if you're still planing.


I guess it's all subjective, my definition of perfect jibe, is planning out so smooth that you barelly lost any speed/power... still working on those...

Small sails are nice but if you're underpowered, you're slow, and not enough power/speed- > forget about planning jibe unlesss you timed a wave just right and using its power...

Falling... getting wet, what is that Wink?
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5698

PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LeeD,

Yes, it was Jarek. He was on a 6.6 KA sail, whereas I was on a 6.3 Windwing Hammer, less the cambers.
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zirtaeb



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 2319

PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jerek married a former good sailing bud of mine, Barb. Nice guy, but I wonder the sanity of using 6 meter sails and Isonics ONLY at Sherman. Even in gusts to 35?
Serge, careful about what you THINK about Berkeley windsurfing.
A few pro guys sail there when around, and the local level is 70%+ planing out of jibes, guys sailing slalom boards for over 20 years.
We're not a bunch of hacks with less than a decade of slalom board experience.
As for myself, I was a Seatrend team rider back in '85, full on Oneill wetsuit sponsorship, Haut sponsorship by '87, full ride Gaastra (2 quivers a year) National Team, 4 years of Stroh's World Cup racing experience, and yes, I can plane out of at least 70% of my jibes when even moderately powered.
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