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Help understanding Slalom
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zirtaeb



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 2312

PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big difference in board performance if you're talking about 14-20 mph winds while I'm talking about 18-29 mph winds. I'm on the WestCoast, and winds are often well over 20 averages. That allows the narrow boards to go fast, while the wider boards get downsized to.....narrower boards.
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sergio_k



Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 60

PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zirtaeb wrote:
Big difference in board performance if you're talking about 14-20 mph winds while I'm talking about 18-29 mph winds. I'm on the WestCoast, and winds are often well over 20 averages. That allows the narrow boards to go fast, while the wider boards get downsized to.....narrower boards.

Guys, guys... as I ponted out before the benefit is mainly in light to modarate winds, board >110L , in strong and steady winds benefit goes away, some actually do better with softer freerides, personally by that time I'm on my custom 80l Witchcraft and don't care how fast I go, it's all about moving inside the elements, not fighting them... But, light to moderate is what most locations get
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zirtaeb



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 2312

PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very Happy Very Happy
I've been going pretty fast in LIGHT winds, like 10-17, with my Kinetic276 (x60 with a 40 tail, 12 lbs)., my ProTec copy of a 68 Mike'sLab 270 x 68 with a 44 cm tail, 15 lbs., or my Slab 280 x 72 with a 52 tail at 13.5 lbs.
All those are PRE- 1998 shapes, freeride and course slalom boards, and with the exception of the 72 wide Slab, they jibe GREAT.
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sergio_k



Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 60

PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zirtaeb wrote:
Very Happy Very Happy
I've been going pretty fast in LIGHT winds, like 10-17, with my Kinetic276 (x60 with a 40 tail, 12 lbs)., my ProTec copy of a 68 Mike'sLab 270 x 68 with a 44 cm tail, 15 lbs., or my Slab 280 x 72 with a 52 tail at 13.5 lbs.
All those are PRE- 1998 shapes, freeride and course slalom boards, and with the exception of the 72 wide Slab, they jibe GREAT.

wow, those are real dinosorouses,lucky for you, you live in windy spot,
those things all could be fast but have very limited wind range comparing to new designs... And I don't belive they jibe that well with all that length... Oh, my last mike's lab is 220cm, 62 cm 10.5 lb...
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zirtaeb



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 2312

PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I jibe well with most boards, so they jibe just fine.
As you well know, a really lightweight board can bounce or slow suddenly during planing jibes, so some weight doesn't hurt.
MikeZ used to make 9 lbs'ers for MattPritchard, and I got to ride them a few times. Complete with AHD blue, and all the stickers.
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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 1979

PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Putting an intermediate sailor on a slalom board is a hard call because there are so many levels of intermediate. But teaching a beginner on a slalom board is just a bad idea. Yes, modern slalom boards are shorter & wider & do plane earlier if you know how. A beginner needs a board with more length, a board that can transition smoothly from displacement mode to planing mode, not something that a modern slalom board will offer. A beginner needs a board that has inboard strap positions, sails well underpowered and has nice, soft rails that makes gybing easier. A beginner needs volume in the nose to help them with learning to tack as well. If slalom boards were so great for beginners than all the schools would be using them to teach beginners.

The point of a freeride board is it falls between a wave board & a slalom board so it is a jack of all trades. The freeride board will be more versatile, easier to plane & jibe which is probably why it is still the most used board in the world. This is a far better tool for an intermediate who is still trying to figure out what type of windsurfing he wants to do. Bump & jump, wave, freestyle or variations of mowing the lawn (slalom/freeride).

Coachg
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zirtaeb



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 2312

PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Totally DON'T believe shorter wider jibes better.
I have a JPProSlalom 232 long.
I have a HyperSonic122, 217 long.
I often ride a 2009 Futura 111.....it's around 242 long.
I had a couple of those mid 90's carbon slalom snubbies from the E Coast.
I even had a 217 Naish in the early '03's.
Plus, I've cut the noses on several boards, and NONE jibed better than the original long nose. The advantage of the cut nose was easier to spot the trim angle mistakes and the windward/leeward roll when sailing at top speeds.
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willysp



Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi there,
This is an article from 2009 but it is related to the thread topic and for me it was interesting (I'm a intermediate freerider trying to learn my first carved gybes):
http://boards.mpora.com/equipment-tests/tested-equipment/group-test/freeride-freerace-slalom-april-09.html
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sergio_k



Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 60

PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zirtaeb wrote:
Totally DON'T believe shorter wider jibes better.
I have a JPProSlalom 232 long.
I have a HyperSonic122, 217 long.
I often ride a 2009 Futura 111.....it's around 242 long.
I had a couple of those mid 90's carbon slalom snubbies from the E Coast.
I even had a 217 Naish in the early '03's.
Plus, I've cut the noses on several boards, and NONE jibed better than the original long nose. The advantage of the cut nose was easier to spot the trim angle mistakes and the windward/leeward roll when sailing at top speeds.

good short board has wider shape, usually cut-away tail, etc... it's all in
details, just cutting nose off will not improve jibing, the part you cutting wouldnt be touching the water anyway, short board have shorter contact area, diff bottom , etc... I recall a year plus we discussed early planning on fw, and we didn't find much common ground, I live in light wind zone/ you in high wind, you just don't understand or use windsurfing gear the way we do.
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sergio_k



Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 60

PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coachg wrote:
Putting an intermediate sailor on a slalom board is a hard call because there are so many levels of intermediate. But teaching a beginner on a slalom board is just a bad idea. Yes, modern slalom boards are shorter & wider & do plane earlier if you know how. A beginner needs a board with more length, a board that can transition smoothly from displacement mode to planing mode, not something that a modern slalom board will offer. A beginner needs a board that has inboard strap positions, sails well underpowered and has nice, soft rails that makes gybing easier. A beginner needs volume in the nose to help them with learning to tack as well. If slalom boards were so great for beginners than all the schools would be using them to teach beginners.

The point of a freeride board is it falls between a wave board & a slalom board so it is a jack of all trades. The freeride board will be more versatile, easier to plane & jibe which is probably why it is still the most used board in the world. This is a far better tool for an intermediate who is still trying to figure out what type of windsurfing he wants to do. Bump & jump, wave, freestyle or variations of mowing the lawn (slalom/freeride).

Coachg

Here in Miami most beg/intermidiate usually start on FW, since you can find used FW cheap and in good shape, it's stable and easy to progress on.
For a lighter <160lb person, larger slalom (130l)will do just as well,
Smaller slalom boards I would recomend to intermidiate and above.

As I wrote before, this is based on experience of relatively large group of
windsurfers in the last 5 years.
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