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Cambered Sails For Free Riding?
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KevinDo



Joined: 02 Jul 2012
Posts: 423
Location: Cabrillo Inside

PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

capetonian wrote:
There is a reason 2nd hand race sails sell for a much bigger discount vs their retail price compared to equivalent size freerace/freeride sails.

A slightly different topic, but I sometimes see people who are still learning / trying to improve some aspect of their jibe who are on 4 camber race sails. Learning to jibe is so much easier without cambers.


I maybe the only one but I always felt gybing my 3 cam (koncept) sails were a lot easier than my no cams Very Happy Very Happy
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14321

PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zirtaeb wrote:
If you want to be the fastest in the water, nothing beats a multi cammed sail, either full race slalom or freeride slalom.

And even then skill and confidence usually matter more if terrain is a factor. An aggressive, confident, reasonably skillful sailor on total wave kit can often blow by slalom gear driven by a sailor lacking in any one of those key areas. And being the FASTEST in a competent crowd generally demands all those factors PLUS very fast gear. One of the slowest (in both speed and learning curve) I've ever sailed with was convinced by another sailor that even novices should be on racy gear ... razor-railed slalom boards, big dagger fins, straps out on the rails, super-stiff masts, and rigid sails with damn near as many cams as square meters ... for putzing around heartland lakes way underrigged. Great gear for a racerhed, but this guy was the SLOWEST guy on the water.

IMO, cams are primarily for people whose objectives AND skills AND aggression -- or whose sheer sail size -- warrant them. The fact that one of the premiere camless sails available -- the Sailworks Retro -- stops at 9.5 sq m tells me one of two overlapping things: the market for camless 10s is too small to bother with, or 10s need cams. If I wanted more expert, first-hand, authoritative, no-BS advice on the subject at hand, I'd call Sailworks. Pretty cheap investment when you have close to three grand at stake for a new 10m rig. You can buy a good used stand-up jet ski for that, and they're infinitely more fun than cruising on flat water.

Start here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YEYQuWo7-Y
and here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVZGm5rcYUc
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capetonian



Joined: 11 Aug 2006
Posts: 903
Location: Oahu

PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:


Start here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YEYQuWo7-Y
and here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVZGm5rcYUc


Lake Isabella hosts the World Jetski Freestyle "how many windsurfers can you crash into because you're not looking where you're going" Championships every year.
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PeconicPuffin



Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 1220

PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bred2shred wrote:
Ultimate top end performance = the best or greatest performance at the top end of the sail's wind range. I.e., how the sail performs in over-powered conditions.


Performs what? Sailing in a straight line? Jibing? Powering and depowering for wave riding? Luffability for freestyle tricks?

You can certainly say that for any given size a cammed sail can handle more wind than a camless. On the other hand racers might be out on 8.5's in the same conditions that freeride and wave sailors are on 5.5's. In that much wind the camless sailor is going to rig a much smaller sail.

If a sailors primary concern is a sail's ability to handle overpowered conditions, then yes cams are better. Or if they're in love with the feeling of the locked draft (which does feel sweet) and don't care about anything else, fine. But for jibing, waves, slashy bump conditions, and any kind of freestyle at all (try duck jibing a cammed sail...can be done but no fun) camless has a huge performance edge.

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Michael
http://www.peconicpuffin.com
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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 2009

PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zirtaeb wrote:
1996 NorthSpectro 5.5 3 cam. Fast, rangy, easy rotation, locked feel, lightweight, easy to rig.


I remember those fondly. I had the 5.0 & 5.5 & sailed them both until they died around 2000 or 2001. The 5.5 died on Donner Lake when I got tossed through the sail on an epic catapult. Great sails with the webbed cams.

Coachg
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dsgrntlxmply



Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Posts: 236

PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No experience with difficulty or not of rigging, but I have twice sailed a 2-cam Naish Boxer SL 6.4 in light winds and liked it a lot. Better upwind than either of my no-cam 6.4 sails, lighter both in uphaul weight and feel while sailing, and cooperative in jibes.
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 1493

PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This topic really has few "right" answers, but in a nut shell.....

Novices and intermediates will be happier with no-cam sails regardless of size.

Advanced and expert sailors that race or like maximum speed with maximum control will like cambered race sails.

Bump & jump, freestyle, wave - no cams.

However, the newer (last 3-5 years) cambered race sails are easy and fast to rig, at least the Maui Sails TR sails are if you are inclined to try them.

I have cambered race sails from 6.6 up to 11.0. I have no cam sails from 6.0 to 4.0.
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carl



Joined: 25 Feb 1997
Posts: 2487
Location: SF bay area

PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For freeride sailing (like the OP asked about) the no-cam sails with 7 battons are very stable when over-powered, also have low end power and are super easy to rig. I replaced my old hard-to-rig 3 cam 9.0 race sail with an Ezzy Cheetah 9.5 and love it. No-cam sails are the way to go for freeride sailing. Very Happy
Just look for 7 battons in the larger sizes, they'll be alot more stable.
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