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Foundering on New Kona One
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jingebritsen



Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 2400

PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lots of folks cannot get their boom high enough to function well with the base that far forward, konajoe. when one moves the base that far away from the foot straps, the boom height geometry is way different than when it's all the way back. base forward boom to the top may be a great course racing setting for dagger app's, but for planing, there's the boom height issue and too much whetted surface as well. been there, tried that on lots of the variations of the original kona one.
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konajoe



Joined: 28 Feb 2010
Posts: 157

PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nope, again. When racing on a long board, it is a real big advantage to get on a plane before the other guy. The speed differences between planing and non planing are huge. On the boards with adjustable mast tracks, racers would always attempt to get on a plane with the track forward in marginal conditions. Planing with the track back is faster than planing with the track forward, but it takes more wind.

Track back sub-planing is dog slow. The tail just drags. If a racer was SURE they could plane with the track back, they'd move the mast back. Otherwise, do the slower plane with the track forward.

Racing is such a great way to improve your free riding. You learn so much. Go to every race you can!
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konajoe



Joined: 28 Feb 2010
Posts: 157

PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey mgoetz! I found this: http://vimeo.com/71020698

At 51 seconds in the video, a Kona One with a yellow Kona 7.4 sail and the mast full forward goes into a jibe, and drops off a plane coming out of it. Even with apparently light wind (no white caps), he's back up on a plane in no time. Is that what you want to do?

So the centerboard is up, and the mast is pretty close to full forward (if not completely forward). The sailor is using the 7.4 Kona, which probably means he is 150# ish. Notice that the sail isn't rigged with a floppy leach like a formula or slalom sail. Rig your sail for its minimum wind settings. If you don't know how to do that, look for rigging instructions for your year, model, and manufacturer online.

The sailor looks like he drives the board a little down wind with his front foot, then gently moves to back foot pressure as the board breaks onto a plane.
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mgoetz



Joined: 06 Jun 1997
Posts: 17

PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Konajoe for the video. Last time I went out, I did move the mast track forward but not all way. The sail I got for this board is an Ezzy 7.5 Lion (it's got two cambers). First time sailing an Ezzy, but find the detailed rigging guidelines as well as reference marks along the leach helpful in rigging properly for the conditions. I'm 185 so I may need a larger sail.

It is interesting that the skills I've developed over the 30 years of windsurfing a shortboard does not necessarily transfer over to windsurfing a longboard. Some of the moves like transitioning slowly to the back, not disturbing the board trim, and employing some of these recommendations, are counter instinctive/intuitive. But one of the reasons I chose the Kona One was to get the same type of experience that I occasionally get with sailing a Hobie Cat or Sunfish - going upwind, sailing to a point - which it does quite well. And the bonus is when you're pretty far out there (something I'm reluctant to do with a daggerless board of lesser volume) and you get a gust that gives you perhaps an hour's worth of planing. It's still a learning experience but it sort of brings back some of the enjoyment of when I first started getting out on the water.

There are not as many windsurfing resources for instructional and gear support so this forum is very helpful.
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d0uglass



Joined: 28 May 2004
Posts: 1073
Location: Bonita Springs, Florida

PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Kona brand sails have a real different shape and pull from sails meant for shortboards, so some of the wisdom of mast track placement that applies to Kona sails may not apply as well when using non-Kona sails on the Kona.

In particular, the center of pull of a Kona sail is higher and further back than the low and forward pull of a twisty leached sail like an Ezzy, and the foot of a Kona sail is cut at a higher angle so you can rake the sail back more without it hitting the deck of the board. I think those factors require the mast base to be more forward with the Kona sail than you would have it with a normal sail. So if you're using a non-Kona sail, you might want to put it a couple inches further back for any given condition than recommended for the Kona sail.

Here is official "tuning guide" from the Kona ONE website: http://www.konaone.com/Page/723/tuning-/

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jingebritsen



Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 2400

PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i discussed the differences of opinion between konajoe and me with steve gottleib. he's the importer of the konas and exocets. he believes that like james said, that the sail and sailor will effect where to trim the board and sail. how high is the boom cut out? is it specifically a sail designed fro long boards with a higher center of effort. does the sailor want to use the board around a course, or just free sail?

patrice belbioch is a big guy, he varies the trim based on conditions when he uses his. when the wind hammers, he shoves the base all the way forward and boom to the top of the cut out. he trims differently for lighter winds. nevin sayer and steve g. won and placed in the kona nationals very recently in some pretty hoary conditions. they trimmed the same as patrice would. keeps the board glued to the water better and keeps the fin from lifting the kit out of the water as readily.

what fin one is using along with what sail may also effect the best trim. if one wishes to plane off of a larger fin, with a lower boom and a lower CE, then perhaps base back? plenty of ways to enjoy this sport.

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whitevan01



Joined: 29 Jun 2007
Posts: 473

PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OP should talk to Steve Gottlieb directly at Aerotech sails. Either use Aerotech forum or email or phone. He's a great guy and will help you out with any aerotech or exocet problems you may have.
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konajoe



Joined: 28 Feb 2010
Posts: 157

PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, mgoetz, the second half of your second paragraph is what makes a longboard so much fun.

So here's what you have. The sail you have MAY cause you to have to put the track back some. But, if you move the track back some, it WILL increase the amount of wind you need to plane, it WILL make the board more unstable in high wind, and it WILL hurt upwind performance. In addition, if its anything like other long boards, track back and centerboard down causes excess railing.

So, if I were you, I'd sail with the track forward for 2 or 3 sessions, and hope that the effect of sail design difference are minimal.

I have dreams of going out to the starting line at a big Kona race and seeing everyone out there with their mast track back some......except me.
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Darbonne



Joined: 27 Jan 2012
Posts: 134

PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mgoetz, I can relate to what you are saying. I have a Kona and the 9.0 rig. I am a novice at best as this is my second season windsurfng. I have had the Kona planing on several occasions, but have yet to get into the straps. This is only my second board so I don't have anything to compare it to other than my Start. When it does plane it seems to happen in slow motion. I have tried to move into the straps but I always lose the plane when I try. I just hook in, move toward the rail and plane out of the straps. I sail with mast base forward per Konajoe's advice, however I have moved it back about 2" from full forward due to the nose going under the chop.
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jingebritsen



Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 2400

PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i've sailed the old race boards from decades ago. if one has the boom far too low with the base forward, then getting back to the straps becomes nearly untenable. try a higher boom. the dynamics are quite simple. boom higher, the further away from the base is from the straps. boom lower as one moves the base closer to the straps. experiment to find the right trim for your use.

kona racing, vs kona free riding do not always require the same settings.

if one is plowing into chop as one overtakes the chop, then one must get the weight further back to trim the board as it should be effortless to go over chop with this board.

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