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freestyle board for freesailing?
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PeconicPuffin



Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 1221

PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jingebritsen wrote:
they ride rough, top out in speed, but quite a few smash real easy. not much upside IMHO.


Here is the upside: In conditions that have me on a freeride board and a 7.5, carving broad jibes, I can get on a 109 FS board with a 6.2, and carve broad, tight, slash, whatever I want. In 6.2 conditions I can put up a 5.3 on a 99 liter FS board and really goof around. They make lighter wind planing days much more exciting.

They plane earlier, with smaller sails than you'd otherwise need, and can (if you want) carve crazy tight turns relative to the sail size. It's as if they add 5-10 knots of wind to the session.

They are not for sailing lit (you can do it, but they do top out in speed, and become a handful in disorganized chop.) If you're lit, grab a smaller (and nonFS) board. John, I still have an image of you in my mind in Maui, hammer down lit blasting towards the waves. That would not be a FS board application!

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boardsurfr



Joined: 23 Aug 2001
Posts: 566

PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PeconicPuffin wrote:
They are not for sailing lit

Certainly true for the larger Skates, and probably for other 100-110 l freestyle boards. But the lowest volume Skates are made for sailing overpowered in crazy conditions - after all, that's what the pros are on in Sylt, doing a freestyle competition in 30+ knots and 15 ft onshore waves. My lovely wife bought a used Skate 90, and she sails it every time when winds are 18+, including in heavy chop at 30 mph winds. Before she got this board, she used a Goya One 77 in strong winds (a board we both loved and sailed a lot). There's no reason for her to use it any more, unless we'd go wave sailing (which we rarely do). When I tried the Skate 90, I was amazed how different it felt it chop compared to the 100 and the 110.

I used to be a freeride board guy until Andy Brandt put me on a freestyle board the first time. He gave me a few tips how to adjust my technique, and within 30 minutes, I was sold. I know plenty of other sailors with similar stories. We sold our freeride boards shortly after getting the Skates. Are they for everyone and every venue? No. If you're primarily into wave sailing like jingebritsen, there are better boards. If you're into high-wind-Gorge slashing using back foot toe pressure only like isobars, FS boards won't do. If you want to race or get top GPS speeds, get something else. But for many "freeride" sailors, freestyle boards are a great choice.

jingebritsen wrote:
they ride rough, ...
cross 114 is way smoother than any FS board in chop,

What some describe as "rough ride" others describe as "lively" and seek out. In barely planing conditions, a very smooth board can also become boring quickly. I remember sailing the Exocet Cross at the 2011 board test in Hatteras. Its "smoothness" was indeed a bit boring, and several other testers voiced the same opinion. In contrast, the Fanatic Hawk, which has a lively ride similar to a Skate, was loved or liked by most testers.
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PeconicPuffin



Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 1221

PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

boardsurfr wrote:

I used to be a freeride board guy until Andy Brandt put me on a freestyle board the first time. He gave me a few tips how to adjust my technique, and within 30 minutes, I was sold. I know plenty of other sailors with similar stories. .


I'm one of them. Andy put me on his board in Bonaire, 2004. Bought my JP a few months later, after reading in Wind Surf magazine (the British mag) that if JP removed the word "freeestyle" from the name and sold it as an all purpose turny freeride board, it would work out just fine.

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jse



Joined: 17 Apr 1995
Posts: 1298
Location: Marin

PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

boardsurfr wrote:
PeconicPuffin wrote:
They are not for sailing lit

Certainly true for the larger Skates, and probably for other 100-110 l freestyle boards. But the lowest volume Skates are made for sailing overpowered in crazy conditions - after all, that's what the pros are on in Sylt, doing a freestyle competition in 30+ knots and 15 ft onshore waves. My lovely wife bought a used Skate 90, and she sails it every time when winds are 18+, including in heavy chop at 30 mph winds. Before she got this board, she used a Goya One 77 in strong winds (a board we both loved and sailed a lot). There's no reason for her to use it any more, unless we'd go wave sailing (which we rarely do). When I tried the Skate 90, I was amazed how different it felt it chop compared to the 100 and the 110.

I used to be a freeride board guy until Andy Brandt put me on a freestyle board the first time. He gave me a few tips how to adjust my technique, and within 30 minutes, I was sold. I know plenty of other sailors with similar stories. We sold our freeride boards shortly after getting the Skates. Are they for everyone and every venue? No. If you're primarily into wave sailing like jingebritsen, there are better boards. If you're into high-wind-Gorge slashing using back foot toe pressure only like isobars, FS boards won't do. If you want to race or get top GPS speeds, get something else. But for many "freeride" sailors, freestyle boards are a great choice.

jingebritsen wrote:
they ride rough, ...
cross 114 is way smoother than any FS board in chop,

What some describe as "rough ride" others describe as "lively" and seek out. In barely planing conditions, a very smooth board can also become boring quickly. I remember sailing the Exocet Cross at the 2011 board test in Hatteras. Its "smoothness" was indeed a bit boring, and several other testers voiced the same opinion. In contrast, the Fanatic Hawk, which has a lively ride similar to a Skate, was loved or liked by most testers.


Yeah, I can vouch for that. I had a similar experience, I tried a Skate (107 liter) and bought it from Pete DeKay, Next season I got a new 100 Liter Skate. Next season I got a new 90 Liter Skate. Sold all my other gear except one high wind board (75 liters). They are versatile, forgiving, and all my friends that try them love them. I'm talking about the Larkspur crowd, known for clinging to their religion and their guns - Oops, I meant old vintage swap meet boards and taped up sails. But I digress. I weigh between 155 and 160 and my 90 liter skate is my go to board. I use the 100 liter for 5.6 conditions. Rest of the time (Tomales, Treasure Island, Delta) the 90 is great. One of the big bonuses of these boards is that you can uphaul them. That gets me on the water when many are sitting on the beach.

Steve
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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 2011

PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The OP's question was "How many people are using freestyle boards for freeride?" Not can you or should you use a freestyle for freeride.

Coachg
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14339

PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Fanatic Skate Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
Then why did 5 other sailors and/or Skate owners, including you, agree with my highly relevant comments about using freestyle boards for B&J?


after which jingebritsen wrote:
the FS board for most is not the best. they ride rough, top out in speed, but quite a few smash real easy. not much upside IMHO.
,
making it 6.

Youse guys please take your whining somewhere else; it's not attractive, contributes nothing, and discourages thinner-skinned responders from considering the big picture. In this case, the OP was looking for more than Skate info or a literal head count; he also wants opinions on how FS boards work for B&J. I posted mine; 6 agreed. Get over it.

Mike \m/
Not always right; just always sure. Smile
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johnl



Joined: 05 Jun 1994
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay I was trying to stay quiet and keep it on topic but since Mike can't let it go, I'll jump back in. The REASON why we are giving you grief Mike is because your FIRST words said you had no experience on freestyle boards but then still felt the need to type something which you know NOTHING first hand about! Why in the world do you feel the need to feel like you know everything even when you admit to having no experience in a subject matter? Your knowledge ego is writing checks you can't cash.

Personally this pisses me off. If I wanted rumor then great, but people come here for first hand information, not what somebody else told them. Now if it had been somebody else, I would have reacted the exact same way since THAT is what annoys me.

And right or wrong doesn't really matter. Maybe you were just lucky this time.....

Oh yeah since you like to bring up my LEO experience all the time, this is called hearsay. Why? Because you hear something then say it. It has NO credibility which is why it isn't even admissible in court. Granted this is far from court (kangaroo court maybe), but the voracity of facts can't be questioned because you don't know anything about it.

Try not answering every single fricking post you see even if you have no knowledge about it and maybe (or maybe not) people might give you a break. I know I would....
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jingebritsen



Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 2441

PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 4:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

there are many differences in how people ride as there are what they choose to use. PP said he remembers me blasting out to the waves in maui. and that he can snap around on a FS board with smaller sails. meanwhile, some can snap around on all. as a for instance, i learned that short wide boards like 235 x 80+ boards are far more likely to plane out of a turn by duck jibing. i look back at my wake, and it's quite acute. PP's happy doing stuff his way, i'm happy doing it my way. all good.

a friend of mine likes to sail comfortably, not fast, just comfortably. she liked some of the FS boards that have been mentioned above. while she uses a 6 and one, i may be on a 8.0 and something lots faster. so for hammer down types, FS boards are not palatable. for that matter, if someone has no desire to become proficient at high speed windsurfing, they may like a FS board for free riding. in the waves, especially onshore crap, the capacity for speed and instantaneous acceleration are great to have from boards. but, smoothness and cutbacks are very important too.

i've never been able to do front side cutbacks on a FS or some FSW boards that well while wave riding. not seen others that have either. the boards balk. that's the slalom rocker chopped down, maybe some of the thickness flow as well. yet, lots of free rides and onshore oriented boards do well either blasting about lit up, or cutting around either front side or back on waves.

want to free style or have a glass ceiling on your top speeds? FS. some can't stomach sailing lit up over chop. it's a skill learned, but riding a board that doesn't jackhammer helps a bunch in learning how. got not much wave opp's too? FS. in all, FS board for free riding is a bit of a trap. if certain conditions prevail, or one sails far from lit up, then one may not know one has been held in such a trap? these are choices. i'm not trying to pick on anyone, just point out the pro's and con's from my perspective.

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jingebritsen



Joined: 21 Aug 2002
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 5:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BTW, those that thought that some of the boards at the test in 2011 were boring were less likely to appreciate boards like the cross 114. josh was much better at hiding his surprise than andy when folks said as much about others like the carve and the all ride. they never sailed them lit, perhaps?

again, it all comes down to what people want. quite often, lots may not have much TOW to know what they want, and may follow a cultural trend.

lots liked the rockets with tons of concave aft. or the futura. i didn't. the rocket is no longer is available that way. lots didn't spend much time on the race boards either. nor were they out testing in really light winds with the big sails.

what does lots of concave aft do? mows over chop when lit up, but tops out in speeds. but, at least it inhibits pump to plane and glide thru jibes.

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PeconicPuffin



Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 1221

PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yesterday afternoon's Freeride on Freestyle session at Mecox Bay, Long Island: First hour had the 6.2 on the JP 109 Freestyle. Hand meter showed 12-15 (7.5 for me on my Techno). Good fun and jibe fest. I haven't mentioned it before in this thread, but freestyle boards are glorious to duck jibe. They want to be duck jibed.

Then the breeze freshened a bit and I switched to the Skate 99. Carve 360's and attempts at upwind 360's (johnl I will be studying your video). Also some faux wave play with the small swell...great fun planing S's on flat water. And the occasional small jump.

Nothing Spockish in the mix...just ripping around on a 6.2 when a 7.5 was the sail call. (btw I will put a 7.5 on the 109 FS. Just didnt need to yesterday)

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Last edited by PeconicPuffin on Sat Jul 20, 2013 8:21 am; edited 1 time in total
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