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Lawnmowers Please
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westender



Joined: 02 Aug 2007
Posts: 617
Location: Portland / Gorge

PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 12:04 am    Post subject: Lawnmowers Please Reply with quote

Is it too much to ask, for you to deviate from your path even a little bit.

I could have ridden that swell for a couple minutes. You saw me riding it from halfway across the river as you came toward me. Yet,, I had to jump off my board to avoid your TBone. Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad
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biffmalibu



Joined: 30 May 2008
Posts: 186

PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 3:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Full support! Look upwind and back off from all swell riders, windsurfing or kiting. Never waste swell!
Thank you.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14054

PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

But he was on starboard, Westy. That gives him the RIGHT to be an idiot, doesn't it? Sad

But we gotta ask ourselves, "Is the because he's a jerk, or because he's simply afraid to deviate?"

But then we must ask, "If the latter, shouldn't he go sail on flat water rather than stake his claim in the swell?" (Hint: the answer is, "Yes".)

If, after we talk with him about it, he refuses, we have equal rights to be an idiot, don't we?
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alexorjona



Joined: 20 Jun 1999
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A related kooky poor move: establish a close leeward overlap or track, from behind, on someone who may not know u are there and can't easily see u thru his sail...... but is likely to turn hard down an approaching face. At least with the mower u can more easily avoid a wreck. Seems to me like this is a Gorge, not coast phenomena and even with relatively experienced sailors. Seems like good practice to make sure your presence is known or leave enough space for at least a tight turn, especially as a set approaches.
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30knotwind



Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 152
Location: White Salmon, WA

PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When Gorge swell riding, I feel like a kiter at Kodak Point. The only solution is to go east, far east. Swell riders unite! Take back the river--not that we ever had it... I dream of the Hatch becoming a mass of swell riders one day--just a dream.
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cgoudie1



Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 1232
Location: Killer Sturgeon Cove

PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 10:24 am    Post subject: Re: Lawnmowers Please Reply with quote

+1

-Craig

westender wrote:
Is it too much to ask, for you to deviate from your path even a little bit.

I could have ridden that swell for a couple minutes. You saw me riding it from halfway across the river as you came toward me. Yet,, I had to jump off my board to avoid your TBone. Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14054

PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

alexorjona wrote:
A related kooky poor move: establish a close leeward overlap or track, from behind, on someone who may not know u are there and can't easily see u thru his sail... even with relatively experienced sailors.

Including one world champion course racer, who tried exactly that with me. I never knew he was there until he began screaming curses at me as he bailed at full speed JUST in time to avoid ramming me amidship. That particular IYRA rule makes zero sense outside a sanctioned event.
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Bond1



Joined: 25 Apr 2000
Posts: 131

PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a wave turner I understand how one might hope that a back and forth sailor would give a little and allow the turner to keep moving up river on the swell, but to expect it is naive. It's old news. It was even more difficult to link wave turns 20 years ago when no one expected you to do it.

You want to turn on waves? Set yourself up well in advance. Look behind you and jibe quickly back for clear water. If you see a wave ahead you want to turn on, alter course and use your rights to push the back and forth sailor away from your position, or to allow the other sailor to clear before you drop in. When you make your turn, project yourself beyond the course of the back and forth sailors. Hesitate. Slow down. Speed up. Move to the next wave over. Go left. Go right. Expecting them to give all the time is like them expecting you to give all the time. It works both ways.

One additional method I employ is to do something that everyone understands, especially the back and forth sailors. If a conflict is approaching, (while I'm working a wave) I'll often position myself in the sweet spot on the wave, get on starboard, and hold that course for a moment. This moment of hesitation will often cause the back and forth sailor to yield, and they'll usually adjust their course upwind (since your starboard course is considerably off the wind) at which point you resume surfing.

This is all easy stuff if you're surfing in control. It's virtually impossible to be hit by another sailor when you're wave turning in control. If you're on the edge of control, anything can happen.

The point is, I guess, that part of being a good wave turner is creating situations where you can turn, rather than expecting everyone to give it to you.

Let the tomatoes fly........
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14054

PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bond1 wrote:
You want to turn on waves? Set yourself up well in advance.

You lost me right there. Very Happy
I don't usually "got" individual waves; I have terrain, and it morphs quickly and incessantly. If we don't nail each whack-a-mole between the eyes the instant it pops up, it's gone forever. No time to "set up", or jibe, or look behind us ... just twitch that back foot, nail that mole, and look for the next one 5 or 50 feet away. Smack! Smash! POW! Biff! Socko! Looks stupid in print, but it's a five-star HOOT in practice.

Then when we get a free second or two, we glance back very quickly for potential objects -- puppets or pole riders -- then put another quarter in the slot and hope any tailgaters took the hint.

Sounds cruel, even arrogant, maybe even risky, but in decades of it I'm aware of only one REALLY-near-collision Iíve contributed to, and he shared the blame, so as long as we remain aware of our surroundings, written invitations are overkill. CAUTION: DO NOT TRY THIS AT THE HATCHERY! There simply isn't room midsummer.

Bond1 wrote:
Look behind you and jibe quickly back for clear water. If you see a wave ahead you want to turn on, alter course and use your rights to push the back and forth sailor away from your position, or to allow the other sailor to clear before you drop in. When you make your turn, project yourself beyond the course of the back and forth sailors. Hesitate. Slow down. Speed up. Move to the next wave over. Go left. Go right.

I hear ya, and those are excellent points, but by that time us poor landlocked chopswell hacks have slain 6-12 o' them moles and may have dropped into and popped out of several big swells littered with mole body parts. Damn, but my pulse is picking up just typing about it. My season ended before I even got out my best scalpels.

Bond1 wrote:
One additional method I employ is to ... position myself in the sweet spot on the wave, get on starboard, and ... they'll usually adjust their course upwind ... at which point you resume surfing.

My variation on that theme is to just drop the hammer, dive 50 or 200 feet deep downwind ... as necessary to make it crystal clear that they now own everything in front of them regardless of Who's On Starboard. They're happy because their linear path is now free, and I'm happy because I have acres of space to do any damned thing I wish. DIE, you freaking whack-a-moles! If I suspect the other guys want to jump or carve, I'll fly farther downwind so they can fire at will. No sweat; there are moles everywhere on the good days.

That right there comprises several advantages of having excess power on tap. With them little bitty ďefficientĒ hankies, itís much tougher to fly deep off the wind flat out, rip hundreds of yards back upwind in the very next reach on a sinker wave board and fin, all the while jumping and decapitating random river moles in the process.

Bond1 wrote:
This is all easy stuff if you're surfing in control. It's virtually impossible to be hit by another sailor when you're wave turning in control.

Have you sailed the Hatch on a windy summer day? Wink

Bond1 wrote:
If you're on the edge of control, anything can happen.

We can only hope. Smile Anticipation is part of the attraction, a long as itís a solo crash hanging in the balance.

Bond1 wrote:
The point is, I guess, that part of being a good wave turner is creating situations where you can turn, rather than expecting everyone to give it to you.

Very true, but why canít lawn mowers understand that their fun is readily available on flat water, whereas good swell and waves are unique?
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Bond1



Joined: 25 Apr 2000
Posts: 131

PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
You lost me right there. Very Happy
I don't usually "got" individual waves; I have terrain, and it morphs quickly and incessantly. If we don't nail each whack-a-mole between the eyes the instant it pops up, it's gone forever. No time to "set up", or jibe, or look behind us ... just twitch that back foot, nail that mole, and look for the next one 5 or 50 feet away. Smack! Smash! POW! Biff! Socko! Looks stupid in print, but it's a five-star HOOT in practice.





Well, the smaller/quicker waves for those kinds of turns don't generally (for me) cause me to move to a position where I'm in front of a back and forth sailor. Not if my radar is working anyway. The big ones' where you might pull 6 or 8 turns and end up 1/4 mile upwind is where I use this technique. You can usually see these sets from quite a distance.


isobars wrote:
I hear ya, and those are excellent points, but by that time us poor landlocked chopswell hacks have slain 6-12 o' them moles and may have dropped into and popped out of several big swells littered with mole body parts. Damn, but my pulse is picking up just typing about it. My season ended before I even got out my best scalpels.


You're not the only one who can get lost. Smile



isobars wrote:
Very true, but why canít lawn mowers understand that their fun is readily available on flat water, whereas good swell and waves are unique?
Smile Smile

I can't answer that one, but I doubt posting a plea here will do any good. Learning to cope with them and exploit their tendencies is, I think, a more effective option.
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