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1st and 2nd Amendments under attack
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14336

PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

reinerehlers wrote:
What has more weight, God's word or man's?
"thou shalt not kill or the right to bear arms?"

Until God preemptively strikes down anyone trying to harm me or my family, my right to bear arms trumps.
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maxdownhaul



Joined: 04 Aug 2011
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
maxdownhaul wrote:
There is a way and you don't have to pay anything. It is called gun control. You wont be able to achieved it in the near future though as from what I understand your elected representatives are too gutless to do anything.

What Bard said, plus how does legislation, even illegal (in violation of the Constitution) legislation, take guns from criminals?

What Bard said is paranoid irony. He claims that society has been vandalized by welfare, drugs, moral poverty, and lack of personal responsibility. This is my argument why guns should be limited in a "civilized" society. How would it be possible if the the USA suddenly did go the way of the Germans, Japanese, Russians, American Indians, Egyptians, or any other ethnic group are crazy would your freedoms be defended by hand guns and a huge variety of military grade small arms with differing types of ammunition be the basis of a cohesive defence force. That is pure paranoia.
In Australia I don't believe it says that I have the right to bear arms in my constitution even though I can. What legislation can legally do in America (without having a referendum on changing your constitution) is to force back ground checks on to anyone wanting a gun, limit the type of gun an individual can own and ban guns such as hand guns and semi and fully automatic weapons. Once guns that are handed back in (yes surrended to authorities ) it will make it harder for trailer trash to get hold of a gun to become a gun wielding criminal. Organized crime will always work out where to get guns but the they mostly wipe them selves out, not schools,shopping centers, cinemas etc.
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3468

PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The plan to "ban guns" has been predicted to us ever since I heard of some small gun comtrol measure in my state in 1961 as a kid.
It was a false alarm from those who sell guns and profit from the death of Americans.
Every announcement that the banning of guns has started since then has been a lie, including recently with the background checks.
Eventually we will get smart enough to set that fraud to rest, but three generations have passed and the death merchants are still fooling some.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14336

PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

maxdownhaul wrote:
What legislation can legally do in America (without having a referendum on changing your constitution) is to force back ground checks on to anyone wanting a gun, limit the type of gun an individual can own and ban guns such as hand guns and semi and fully automatic weapons. Once guns that are handed back in (yes surrended to authorities ) it will make it harder for trailer trash to get hold of a gun to become a gun wielding criminal. Organized crime will always work out where to get guns but the they mostly wipe them selves out, not schools,shopping centers, cinemas etc.

Nothing personal, Max, but that's neither correct nor rational.
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reinerehlers



Joined: 25 Jul 2001
Posts: 1006

PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:

Until God preemptively strikes down anyone trying to harm me or my family, my right to bear arms trumps.


Has there been a rash of people trying to harm you and your family? More fear mongering as usual.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14336

PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe so, but it comes straight from the police lawyers and SWAT teams teaching me and my wife about armed (any other kind is naive) self-defense. And it doesn't take a rash; it takes only one incident to make it very real ... of which I listed several in the Gun Nut thread. I make my choices, you make yours, and the world turns.
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maxdownhaul



Joined: 04 Aug 2011
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nothing personal, Max, but that's neither correct nor rational.[/quote]

Could you tell me how it is not correct or rational. It worked here quite well.
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 4240

PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 2:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm still waiting to hear which country didn't eventually fail its people...
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maxdownhaul



Joined: 04 Aug 2011
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevenbard wrote:
I'm still waiting to hear which country didn't eventually fail its people...

What exactly do you mean by fail its people. Do you mean a country that hasn't jailed a single individual on political grounds? Or maybe cause the death of a single citizen? I am not sure what you are getting at and what is the connection of this to gun ownership ?
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reinerehlers



Joined: 25 Jul 2001
Posts: 1006

PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 5:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess this really is a pointless debate. It's hard to debate with a group of people who would rationalize that potential massacres are not as much of a concern as the remote possibility of them being attacked personally, or defending themselves against the oogabooga government who is going to turn against them. This same group would rather ignore the blantant statics regarding violent crimes, or viable gun control models found the world over so that they can have their constitional pissing match regardless of the good of all.
Excuse me, I have to go check my property to make sure that sasquatch hasn't made it past my 10 foot chain link fence that I put up around my yard. My neighbours sure hate that fence and my barking rotweilers, but screw them, as long as I'm safe. My friend has the same set up, but sometimes his rotweilers get out and maul some of his neighbour's children. It really is sad that some of the children died and were disfigured, but as long as no one tells me I can't own these angry dogs I'm fine with it. Afterall, its all about personal safety and warding off the potential harm, right?
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