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modulating jibe radius
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boardsurfr



Joined: 23 Aug 2001
Posts: 566

PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When learning to jibe, we usually misdiagnose what we are doing wrong. I think that's the case here, too. With the proper entry technique, you can adjust the radius mid-jibe as needed.

A common misconception for new jibers (at least those not learning in an ABK camp) is that the carve is something you do actively. Unless you are an expert, it is not. Trying to carve actively usually means you out pressure on your toes, leaving the body behind, close to it's original outside position. You then need to keep pressure in the sail for balance. If the board stops suddenly because of hitting chop, your body gets thrown forward-outside.

Going into the jibe with more speed would reduce the likelihood of a sudden stop and throw somewhat, but will be hard to do for you since you are now somewhat afraid (and understandably so). More importantly, it is not the main problem you are currently facing.

Your first goal should be to get into a well-balanced, surfing-style position over the board, with no pressure in the sail. In that position, even a sudden slowdown from hitting chop etc. will not eject you. Once you can get there in most jibe entries, you can worry about finishing the jibe (which then should be easy). Note that the sail will go light before you are all the way downwind.

The trick to get into this position is to (a) let the sail pull you into the turn, and (b) keeping the sail fully sheeted in, so that it will automatically oversheet and become light as you turn downwind. As others have suggested, get the Dasher 12 Step Jibe Video, it shows really nicely how to get there. But here's a very short summary of important points (I am omitting many other steps here):

1. Move both hands back on the boom. The front hand should be close to the harness line, the back hand needs to move at least 6-8 inches back. Make sure you are fully sheeted in - looking over your back shoulder can help to sheet in.

2. Let your ankles and then knees go soft and give in to the sail pull, letting it pull you into the curve. Keep your chin up and your back straight. Your knees needs to get in front of your toes, this will start the carve.

3. Keep the front arm extended, pushing the rig into the turn, out of your view. Bend your back arm to sheet in. Bend your knees.

As the rig pulls you into the turn, the pressure in the rig will get lighter and lighter, and you'll get into a neutral surfing stance with bent knees, straight back, chin up. The mast is leaning into the turn, and the weight of the rig will automatically create mast foot pressure. Giving into the sail pull can be a bit scary at first, but when done right, the carve will now be really smooth, even in bad chop.

If you look at the jibe video in one of my recent blog posts, you can get the idea about how the sail pulls you upright. But note that I did not sheet in enough in this jibe. That worked ok because the water was perfectly flat - with any chop, sheeting in more is essential.
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watermonkey



Joined: 16 May 2003
Posts: 66

PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jingebritsen wrote:
do you have a short wide board?

no, I'm on a modern FSW.

boardsurfr wrote:
A common misconception for new jibers (at least those not learning in an ABK camp) is that the carve is something you do actively. Unless you are an expert, it is not... Your first goal should be to get into a well-balanced, surfing-style position over the board, with no pressure in the sail.

ooookay, now I see where this is going...sail and body-mass placement forces the board to bank, rocker initiates the turn.

Thanks for the huge post! The Cribb video says the same about letting the rig pull you into the turn. I'm definitely not doing that, focusing on rail pressure instead - which is not advocated by Cribb - not sure how I transformed that. Funny how you hear one thing repeatedly and focus on something else.

I'll get the Dasher video as well.
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fxop



Joined: 13 Jun 1998
Posts: 71

PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Watermonkey -- I was going to write you a careful reply, but as I look at your past posts I see you are working your way up the learning curve in do-it-yourself fashion like so many of us did.

Fortunately for you, you live in the Bay area where one of the best on-the-water instructors anywhere teaches -- Jason Voss -- his contact info on this web page: http://www.jrvwindsurfing.com/ .

I too enjoyed working my way up the ladder, but 15 years into my windsurfing career I started getting on the water lessons because I wasn't adapting to the new style gear very well. Let me echo others who have said they wish they had taken lessons sooner. In Jibing a lot happens all at once -- it isn't 47 things -- you probably only need to focus on one or two things to make a huge improvement, but somebody who knows what they are doing needs to sail with you to identify those essentials.

Getting thrown hard into the water is no fun so why not spend $100 and skip this phase? You won't regret it, and believe me there will always be plenty to grind on in solitary splendor down the line.
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PeconicPuffin



Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 1221

PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fxop wrote:

Fortunately for you, you live in the Bay area where one of the best on-the-water instructors anywhere teaches -- Jason Voss -- his contact info on this web page: http://www.jrvwindsurfing.com/ .


I will add my endorsement! Jason is outstanding.

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Michael
http://www.peconicpuffin.com
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14321

PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

watermonkey wrote:
So the board isn't staying glued to the water and I get launched. I'll work on those and see if I can roll in more gradually...finesse is really elusive with this stuff.

It's not clear to me that "coming unglued" from the water leads directly to launches, in which we come unglued from the deck. Getting launched early in jibes seems more to me to come from either or both of these faults:
1. Getting surprised by and reacting improperly to the surge of power as we bear off. It can be very pronounced, and can break our earthly bonds (or at least our contact with the board) if we don't get our cg low enough to counteract it.
2. Keeping our center of gravity outside the turn (upwind of the board) as we carve. It must be over the board, and that includes accommodating any g forces we're generating.

Mike \m/
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14321

PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

watermonkey wrote:
I'm admittedly holding back a bit since higher speed = harder crash if it's to the outside.

Buy some armor, fuhgheddaboutit, and go for it. Whodathunk helmet, face guard, and rib armor could help us learn to jibe?
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adywind



Joined: 08 Jan 2012
Posts: 229

PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You've said you are watching GCs video, but fo you follow his advise to stick your as out? It's the same like bending your knees, but somehow more understandable. Next time think:ass out instead of: bend your knees.
And avoid looking down at your feet or in front of the board-it's like inviting a crash. Start with looking back at the wake then shift to looking inside the turn and finally to where you want to go - downwind to some extent.



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Ass out and looking inside the turn
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PeconicPuffin



Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 1221

PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

adywind wrote:
Next time think:ass out instead of: bend your knees.


That's tricky advice...I can stick my ass out and be piked over at the waist (looking at the board, as you cautioned not to).

Hips in and forward, not out. Try to bring your butt to your heels, while your harness hook is further forward than your nose. Back perpendicular to the water (or as close as you can get it.)

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http://www.peconicpuffin.com
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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 2009

PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to agree with PP here. In the photo above the nose of the board is way to high for the flat water I am seeing in the photo. It looks like the sailor is trying to "reign" in a horse and is pulling with the upper body leaning way back forcing the nose up. Looks like too much back foot pressure in the picture. In choppy water that will bounce you off the back. Try instead to drive your knees into the foot of the rig.

Coachg



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feuser



Joined: 29 Oct 2002
Posts: 1395

PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

adywind wrote:
You've said you are watching GCs video, but fo you follow his advise to stick your as out? It's the same like bending your knees, but somehow more understandable. Next time think:ass out instead of: bend your knees.
And avoid looking down at your feet or in front of the board-it's like inviting a crash. Start with looking back at the wake then shift to looking inside the turn and finally to where you want to go - downwind to some extent.


The sailor in Adywind's picture is riding the fin and not turning.

It really helps to consciously unload the fin at the jibe entry. This will automatically get you to do many of the "right things" (softening your knees, leaning forward and into the turn, setting the entire length of your leeward rail - as opposed to riding the fin straight downwind).

I control my jibe radius by where I look. If I spot a point in the water that's inside but close to where my board will cut through the water, the jibe will be wide and fast, if I look back over my sail and spot the point of my exit and sail flip, the radius will tighten.

The reason your board follows your eyes is that, again, your body translates this into the right mechanics: looking back will turn first your shoulders then your hips. This increasingly weighs your toes and therefore the inside rail, and also helps you to over sheet which decreases the momentum of the sail that tries to "go straight" instead of round the corner.

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florian - ny22

http://www.windsurfing.kasail.com/
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